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 Post subject: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:31 pm
Posts: 125
I work in the aviation branch in the army. I think hobie can think of a way to make the design longer and stronger. How about this type of design, using one of my apaches for an example. Just imagine the blades as the halyards of course. Lol

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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13892
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
while the Islands are interesting for novice sailors; they leave a lot to be desired if you have a lot of sailing experience.


There is nothing not to be desired about the Island. It is a unique and capable craft. There are a lot of experienced sailors who sail Islands due to the combination of MirageDrive, stable platform and simple assembly... and good performance. And Novices for the same reasons.

The desire is always to improve and in this case we simply have here is too many cooks in the kitchen!

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:26 am
Posts: 158
Location: Brisbane Australia
tpdavis473 wrote:
Don't want to disagree too much Greg, but a Weta mast is stiff enough and it is also light enough for easy rigging. Granted, the Hobie preference for soft plastic boats makes it difficult to have a mast base that is robust, but it would have been do'able if they weren't wedded to flexible masts-which were a good idea for fast boats in the 1980s, but everyone else in the world is going stiffer this century. Heck, they intentionally created a carbon fiber mast that was flexible--can't believe they did that; might as well have used pultruded fiberglass. It worked OK until everyone wanted a spinnaker, then the true drawback to the boat became more obvious. Like Rube Goldberg, you can make anything work no matter how hacked up. Oh well, not my boat, nor my problem; but while the Islands are interesting for novice sailors; they leave a lot to be desired if you have a lot of sailing experience.


tpdavis473. People buy the islands because of the versatility, and yes there are many very experienced sailors that love their islands for that exact reason. There is no other sailing vessel that does what the islands can do. Do you even own an island?

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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
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Location: Benicia, CA
Nope, when I chose a boat I looked briefly at the Islands and decided it was going to be adequate, but not good. Like anything with "versatility", it doesn't do any one thing well. Since I just wanted to sail, I most enjoy boats that are good sailors-like my Getaway, F242 and SeaRail 19. I also owned a Triak which was also doomed for the same reason as the Islands, it was intended to paddle and sail...it did neither superbly, like the Islands, it was OK without sails, and OK sailing (ie, got you there).

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Colorado
Its not perfect.. If the TI did not have mirage drives, I would not own it. But with the mirage drives, if mine got stolen I would have to go buy another one. Im using my TI right now up on a mountain lake in Colorado that has really great scenery for just pedaling but winds come up fast and strong. There is also an invasive species inspection - super easy with the TI. And you can not keep a boat moored or anchored on lake overnight so its always day sailed (easy setup). The TI may not be "perfect" but it really is a perfect solution for me..

Some pictures of a sailing buddys spinnaker from last week

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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:26 am
Posts: 158
Location: Brisbane Australia
tpdavis473 wrote:
Nope, when I chose a boat I looked briefly at the Islands and decided it was going to be adequate, but not good. Like anything with "versatility", it doesn't do any one thing well. Since I just wanted to sail, I most enjoy boats that are good sailors-like my Getaway, F242 and SeaRail 19. I also owned a Triak which was also doomed for the same reason as the Islands, it was intended to paddle and sail...it did neither superbly, like the Islands, it was OK without sails, and OK sailing (ie, got you there).


Well if you don't own one, then don't come onto this forum and bag them. Keep you opinions to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:31 pm
Posts: 125
Hogman wrote:
tpdavis473 wrote:
Nope, when I chose a boat I looked briefly at the Islands and decided it was going to be adequate, but not good. Like anything with "versatility", it doesn't do any one thing well. Since I just wanted to sail, I most enjoy boats that are good sailors-like my Getaway, F242 and SeaRail 19. I also owned a Triak which was also doomed for the same reason as the Islands, it was intended to paddle and sail...it did neither superbly, like the Islands, it was OK without sails, and OK sailing (ie, got you there).


Well if you don't own one, then don't come onto this forum and bag them. Keep you opinions to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 902
Location: Benicia, CA
Hogman wrote:
tpdavis473 wrote:
Nope, when I chose a boat I looked briefly at the Islands and decided it was going to be adequate, but not good. Like anything with "versatility", it doesn't do any one thing well. Since I just wanted to sail, I most enjoy boats that are good sailors-like my Getaway, F242 and SeaRail 19. I also owned a Triak which was also doomed for the same reason as the Islands, it was intended to paddle and sail...it did neither superbly, like the Islands, it was OK without sails, and OK sailing (ie, got you there).


Well if you don't own one, then don't come onto this forum and bag them. Keep you opinions to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Gee, how ya gonna learn better if you don't listen to others with more experience?

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Last edited by tpdavis473 on Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Posts: 125
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Anniversary of my spinnaker kit. Just wanted to share.


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 Post subject: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:46 pm 
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In the name of getting a fix because of self interest in owning a spinnaker kit, i tried a different design. Im pretty sure hobie has tried something like this since I know they are way smarter and have more resources then me. Instead of the halyard going to the back of the boat why not straight down parallel with the mast? But does this work in real life?

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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
There are some caveats against this working as smoothly as you might expect. Even though the masthead doesn't rotate, the mast DOES when furling the sail, and there is no simple way to avoid tangles with the halyard, remembering you have the part attached to the head of the spinnaker, as well as the part Hobie carries in the backstay position (although it of course is not actually a backstay due to it being connected to the masthead only via pulleys).

You could perhaps hide the halyard in a pvb pipe carried in front of the mast (ie outside the furling sail). I believe this is similar to fusioneng's solution.

However, the real bottom line is that with the three inexpensive mods I listed in another thread, plus a measured approach when raising or lowering sails, adding the Hobie spinnaker kit to an Island is a terrific improvement to sailing when the wind is aft of the beam, and especially aft of the rear quarter in stronger winds.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:24 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
touayang84 wrote:
In the name of getting a fix because of self interest in owning a spinnaker kit, i tried a different design. Im pretty sure hobie has tried something like this since I know they are way smarter and have more resources then me. Instead of the halyard going to the back of the boat why not straight down parallel with the mast? But does this work in real life?

Image

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This works fine in real life on a stiff mast (Triak is set up that way). However, you do have to have the halyard away from the mast since when you reef or furl the mainsail the halyard gets fouled when it runs straight up the mast. The turning block for the halyard can be at the bow next to the spin tack or somewhere aft far enough for the spin to gybe through. Issues with that system relate to the problem posed by furling the mainsail induces a torque to the spin halyard and if there isn't a good enough thrust bearing at the masthead, the halyard will wrap around and foul on the mainsail.

With the flexi mast on the Islands, the spin load will pull the masthead forward and sideways which will mess up the mainsail shape unless you tighten the mainsheet a bunch--in which case the mainsail won't be trimmed correctly for that point of sail.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3015
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tony:
Don't confuse my system with Hobies, totally different concepts, for totally different purposes, and designs. We are just confusing everyone talking anything about my system.

Hobie has already stated they really don't want to change their mast topper system, and they don't want too many cooks in the kitchen so it's better to just keep quiet and not further confuse everyone.

My boat was highly specialized and designed to fulfill a specific purpose only, (I'm a diver, (USN master instructor certifications, used to teach scuba at the Y)), something I've been doing all my life. We retired to Florida in 2007 and I don't have much to do, but I still like to recreational dive and snorkel just for fun. I don't fish at all, (except spear fishing, (pretty restricted around here though)). Plus we used the boat as a general purpose family boat, and kayak, (really cool and unique options), we used just the kayak part almost half the time, actually as a kayak it was the best darn kayak we ever owned.

Problem is down here our old 24ft Sea Ray cost $80 grand, and it costs $400/month just for dry storage down here in Florida, (ouch), plus we could go thru $300 bucks in fuel over a weekend easily (80 gallons x $4 bucks a gallon, (marine fuel) is $300 bucks). Yea we can rent a boat for the day but that's $800 bucks a day plus fuel. Of course we can go out on commercial charters, but that's always at least $100 bucks a piece, ($400 bucks for 4 divers), if we go out every week it gets kinda pricey.

Below is one trip we did a few yrs back, we stayed at the Hilton in Key largo, (free because I have a gazzilian hilton points), cost us I think $12 bucks each to rent 4 nitrox tanks, and about $2-$3 bucks in gas to get out to Christ Abyss and back, (about 15 miles out). Here is the track we took.
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This is Christ Abyss
Image

The day was very calm and sunny (winds under 7 mph, and no waves), you can't dive when it's windy and wavy, (no underwater visibility), plus it's downright dangerous out there in the keys in open ocean, (lol). There were four adults, we towed all our gear in our inflatable dingy behind the boat, (650 lbs capacity), the highly hardened and modified TI has a little over 800 lbs capacity.
We have been to most of the red flags on the map.

Think about it a stock TI goes around 2 mph in those conditions, that would be 16 hrs of pedaling to get there and back. If we can't make it in 2 hrs, we don't go, (why in the world would you want to do that). First off you would get burnt to a crisp in the 95 degree florida sun.

Sure I got a mast topper, but that's only one of 30 major modifications to the crafts basic design to suit our own specific purposes only. There is zero interest out there about this stuff, everyone loves the stock boat as it comes from the factory, (nothin wrong with that). We had a very fun 8 yr run.

We were just out there tryin to have fun that's all, Hobie invented something very special in my opinion.
Image

Let's not confuse everyone.


FE


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 Post subject: Re: New Spinnaker Fix
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13892
Location: Oceanside, California
fusioneng wrote:
Hobie has already stated they really don't want to change their mast topper system, and they don't want too many cooks in the kitchen so it's better to just keep quiet and not further confuse everyone.


I don't mind a bunch of cooks... just them telling us what to cook all the time! ;)

You are more than welcome to cook away on customizations to your own boats! It's fun!

To be clear on the Hobie Spinnaker design, as I think these have been confused in this topic:

The halyard system acts as a backstay to prevent the mast from bowing forward under load.

The Mast topper spins freely and allows the main sail to furl while the spinnaker is deployed or simply rigged and ready.

If the halyard is tensioned you can easily furl the main without batten hang ups on the halyard. A limp halyard will get hung up.

The added cleat on the aft aka that holds the spinnaker in the bag allows the halyard to be tensioned properly without pulling the spinnaker out of the bag.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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