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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Location: Cedar Key, FL
I've been "sailing" Outbacks since 2004 and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a TI.

I'll probably use the TI solo at least half the time. In the Outback, I don't worry about offshore wind as I've yet to be surprised by a combination of wind and tide that I couldn't furl the sail and power through with the mirage drive. I'm concerned that the TI may not be as forgiving. How close to the wind can a stock TI sail? How challenging is the TI to solo pedal into the wind given its weight and size (frontage area)?

There's a 2015 and a 2012 for sale near me. I've never wanted to sail with the vantage seat in a monohull Hobie because its feels like the center of gravity is higher. I assume that's not a problem in the TI with the amas. Are there other issues between the model years that I should consider?

I'll definitely use a trailer. The 2015 that I'm looking at comes with a trailer, but it was converted from a light cargo trailer and would not be suitable to launch from. I assume that the TI can be launched solo by strapping a cart on as you are sliding it off the trailer and then walking it to the water, correct?

Thanks in advance for any tips, suggestions or insights.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:56 pm 
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We considered the TI 3 years ago. Common advice we were offered then included: What will the TI help you do on the water, then try one out long enough to confirm it lines up with where you want to go. 3 yrs later, we have canoes, kayaks, and motorboats collecting dust while we spend most of our on-water time in the TI. For us it turned out to be the most fun, best fit for the fishing and sailing we enjoy. BYW, we are traveling to Cedar Key tomorrow for a couple of weeks with the TI on the trailer. Maybe you would consider checking in somewhere near Cedar Kay to further your review?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:54 am 
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Location: Cedar Key, FL
Thanks for the reply.

Hopefully we can meet up in CK. My wife and I actually live in Orlando and CK is our weekend getaway. Unfortunately, she had foot surgery last week and our place on CK has lots of stairs. There's a chance we'll be there during your stay and if so, I'd love to meet up.

Is this your first in there? If so and you want some pointers/suggestions, let me know and I'd be happy to share.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:01 am
Posts: 249
Location: Orlando!
Pollo de muerte wrote:
I've been "sailing" Outbacks since 2004 and now I'm thinking of upgrading to a TI.

I'll probably use the TI solo at least half the time. In the Outback, I don't worry about offshore wind as I've yet to be surprised by a combination of wind and tide that I couldn't furl the sail and power through with the mirage drive. I'm concerned that the TI may not be as forgiving. How close to the wind can a stock TI sail? How challenging is the TI to solo pedal into the wind given its weight and size (frontage area)?

Sailing efficiency falls off precipitously past about 60-65 degrees to wind imo, but you can still cover ground and it’s fun anyways. I don’t think you would enjoy pedaling straight into high winds for extended periods. The TI is not as difficult to pedal solo for a lot of boat, but it is still a lot of boat to pedal.

There's a 2015 and a 2012 for sale near me. I've never wanted to sail with the vantage seat in a monohull Hobie because its feels like the center of gravity is higher. I assume that's not a problem in the TI with the amas. Are there other issues between the model years that I should consider?

In my estimation the vantage seating in a kayak alone is worth the upgrade and my butt was never sore regardless of how long or what conditions I was out in, which by the way, the crappier weather/ water, the more fun Island sailing becomes.

I'll definitely use a trailer. The 2015 that I'm looking at comes with a trailer, but it was converted from a light cargo trailer and would not be suitable to launch from. I assume that the TI can be launched solo by strapping a cart on as you are sliding it off the trailer and then walking it to the water, correct?

Yes. Commuting a TI over sand with the 30 cm balloon tires was easy enough with just the hull, and doable fully assembled if the grade is low enough.

Thanks in advance for any tips, suggestions or insights.


Orlandoan myself. Though I don’t have my 2015 TI anymore, a had a lot of fun launching and sailing it on both coasts and lakes in between. The only way it falls short of an outback of which I’ve owned and sailed a few, are solo launch and load times. Typically from a trailer to a ramp, setup and launch/ recovery was 15 minutes each way. This time would’ve been shortened a bit if my trailer had TI saddles. Going from trailer, across a beach, setup and launch (including fishing gear) ran about 40-45 minutes each way. A big 42cm balloon tire cradle type cart would improve those times.

I solo’d my TI most of the time and found it much more preferable and worth the extra work than say an AI or any other ‘yak I’ve owned.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:27 am 
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Location: Cedar Key, FL
All of my other yaks are on a floating dock in Cedar Key, so I'm spoiled in terms of launch and retrieval time. I don't mind putting in some extra work as long as I can handle it solo.

If you have any hidden/out of the way launch spots on the east coast near O-town for the TI, I'd love to hear about them. I'd rather not deal with crowded launch ramps if possible.

Regarding going into the wind, I found a post by fusioneng suggesting that he could make good headway in a TI by pedaling moderately while sailing very close to the wind. I've cruised on a motor sail yacht and I'm familiar with the concept, but I've never been able to achieve it in the Outback. I assume that the Outback being somewhat squirrelly and the mast for my overlarge sail being somewhat flexible are working against me on that rig, but I have not seen much confirmation that others have done this in the TI and I'm aware that fusioneng had a heavily modified TI, so I'm hoping for some confirmation on this point.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Years ago I started with a Hobie Outback with a sail kit. Did OK.

Moved up to an AI - loved it - much better experience sailing vs. Outback with sail kit.

Sold the AI and moved up the TI - Love this set up. Faster boat. Longer range. Larger capacity if needed.

Added an outboard for additional safety on long (50+ mile) off shore runs. Now sail year round with the TI, even in winter months in the North East US in the Atlantic.

No going back!

My recommendation - get the 2015 TI with the vantage seats.

See a few videos here of the TI in action.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=james+powers+windwatcher+kayak

You will love it!

Jim

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Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:27 pm 
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Pollo de muerte wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Hopefully we can meet up in CK. My wife and I actually live in Orlando and CK is our weekend getaway. Unfortunately, she had foot surgery last week and our place on CK has lots of stairs. There's a chance we'll be there during your stay and if so, I'd love to meet up.

Is this your first in there? If so and you want some pointers/suggestions, let me know and I'd be happy to share.


We are in CK now for at least 7 days, perhaps a few longer.

As you see in other posts there is a definate 'advantage' to adding power, while under sail. In the shallow gulf waters--esp, in tight channels with wind/current against one's headway; power from the mirage drive(s), or motor makes it doable to make progress close to the wind. I've not sailed an outback; but we do sail both our Pro Anglers. The Tandem Is sails much faster/closer to the wind than the solo hull. As others have already noted, the motor adds a lot to our range -- which is a main reason, we use the TI the most.

Always interested in learning from someone more experienced with CK. We are at Shell Mound now and will be fishing in that area for the next few days.

Best wishes for a quick recovery and hope you two can make it to CK. My wife and I alway make sure to stop here when we get to FL.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:01 am
Posts: 249
Location: Orlando!
Pollo de muerte wrote:
All of my other yaks are on a floating dock in Cedar Key, so I'm spoiled in terms of launch and retrieval time. I don't mind putting in some extra work as long as I can handle it solo.

If you are a moderately fit, moderately athletic person, you can do it.

If you have any hidden/out of the way launch spots on the east coast near O-town for the TI, I'd love to hear about them. I'd rather not deal with crowded launch ramps if possible.

I don't like to fight traffic either. Isn't that the point of sailing?
Some places I sail that are easy to get in and out of except maybe peak weekend times:

Dinky Dock Park on lake Virginia off Aloma/ Fairbanks.
Lake Fairview at the park off Lee Rd and OBT near Lk. Fairview Marina. There you can also dock at the Shells restaurant and have a drink or meal.
Mount Dora public boat ramp or Tavares public boat ramp by the sea planes.
Lake Monroe/ Sanford ramp at the north end of Palmetto Ave next to the marina for "big water." Also Magnolia Park south of Apopka for Lake Apopka access. Lk Apopka is I think the 4th largest lake in FL but it is still a bit polluted.
Lake Ivanhoe off Orange Ave just south of Princeton if you want to show off to I-4 traffic. (Parking is minimum so off hours is best)

For saltwater there's:
Parrish park ramps or shore launch anywhere north to the entrance of Merritt Island Wildlife Refuge for Indian River access in Titusville.
Drive, park and launch anywhere on New Smyrna beach, Daytona, Ponce, South Daytona Shores.
Cocoa Beach has a lot of access on down to Melbourne.
Playalinda beach is difficult if not impossible to get a yak that size over the walks, but you can launch at Eddy Creek and have access to the South Mosquito Lagoon, and there's also Biolab boat ramp on the opposite (West) side and a little north. If the water is low there are several shallow flats to avoid but still a lot of open "deep" water to sail.
Lots of shore launch access to the Indian River and Banana River off of 528 and 520.


Regarding going into the wind, I found a post by fusioneng suggesting that he could make good headway in a TI by pedaling moderately while sailing very close to the wind. I've cruised on a motor sail yacht and I'm familiar with the concept, but I've never been able to achieve it in the Outback. I assume that the Outback being somewhat squirrelly and the mast for my overlarge sail being somewhat flexible are working against me on that rig, but I have not seen much confirmation that others have done this in the TI and I'm aware that fusioneng had a heavily modified TI, so I'm hoping for some confirmation on this point.


I can't speak to that method though it makes sense. Frankly I prefer to sail but if you have to cut time, pedal sailing or a small electric or gas motor sounds like the way to do it.

If you're going to beach launch, Powers' videos are a great primer. I've sail-launched on the west coast (LBK) the way he does but never had the guts to do it into the Atlantic where I pedal AND paddle through the breakers (with the blades up in case a wave pushes the boat backwards.) He also sails his TI right through the breakers back onto the beach whereas I orient my boat perpendicular to the waves/ shore, furl the sail, pull the drives, pull the rudder and skeg, then throw out a small sea anchor and drift in so the boat doesn't get sideways/ tipped/ damaged. (There is a YT video on this.) My method may not work with an offshore wind but they're rare here and I've never been confronted with one. Maybe do everything but leave the sail and rudder (not locked down) out.

The TI is very robust and can handle a lot of wind waves and surf as it is, just make sure before you surf launch, that you have the free upgraded aka spring lock kit installed otherwise a good jolt from a wave is likely to pop the aka out of joint. I found this out the hard way first time in the Atlantic however since I replaced them it's been rock solid.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:55 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Cedar Key, FL
itiming wrote:
Pollo de muerte wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Hopefully we can meet up in CK. My wife and I actually live in Orlando and CK is our weekend getaway. Unfortunately, she had foot surgery last week and our place on CK has lots of stairs. There's a chance we'll be there during your stay and if so, I'd love to meet up.

Is this your first in there? If so and you want some pointers/suggestions, let me know and I'd be happy to share.


We are in CK now for at least 7 days, perhaps a few longer.

As you see in other posts there is a definate 'advantage' to adding power, while under sail. In the shallow gulf waters--esp, in tight channels with wind/current against one's headway; power from the mirage drive(s), or motor makes it doable to make progress close to the wind. I've not sailed an outback; but we do sail both our Pro Anglers. The Tandem Is sails much faster/closer to the wind than the solo hull. As others have already noted, the motor adds a lot to our range -- which is a main reason, we use the TI the most.

Always interested in learning from someone more experienced with CK. We are at Shell Mound now and will be fishing in that area for the next few days.

Best wishes for a quick recovery and hope you two can make it to CK. My wife and I alway make sure to stop here when we get to FL.


Sounds like you have some experience in CK, but here's my basic mirage drive kayak info dump:

First and foremost, tides matter in CK. We get more tidal variation than many places in Fla and the oyster beds and general shallowness can ruin your day in the areas around town and even out around the barrier islands. Check the local weather station (https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/stati ... id=8727520) and try to head out when the tide is coming in and up to 1.5 feet above mean low tide. You can still get to the main city boat ramp at a low tide, but if shore launching (across from Faraway for example), then this advice will really matter. Also, this advice is critical for taking a mirage drive yak in the backwater.

The Friends of the Lower Suwannee & Cedar Keys National Wildlife Refuges website indicates that there is an open house on Seahorse Key on March 13. I'd call the local NWR office if you are interested (352/493-0238) because it is unusual for them to allow anyone to approach Seahorse this time of year, but it may be an indication that the nesting birds have completely abandoned Seahorse and moved to nearby Snake Key so they are loosening the restrictions on Seahorse. In any event, there's a really nice beach on the far gulf side of Seahorse and it's a nice little kayak trip (about 10 miles).

The other reason to call the local NWR office is to see if they have increased the protection zone around Snake Key. My favorite trip (based on the number of times I've done it) is to poke around Atsena Otie and head out to Snake and then hang out in the lagoon:

Image

As I mentioned above, the rookery may have moved from Seahorse to Snake, so they may have moved the extra protections (i.e., can't approach within 100 yards) to Snake. The NWR website has not been updated in years, so I'd call to verify before approaching either Snake or Seahorse.

North Key has no special protections (just don't go inland) and also has a really nice beach in a semi-protected cove:

Image

You'd be looking to hang out in the southern part of the cove. A couple of pointers: (1) there is a small island called Deadman's Key in between Seahorse and North that is not on the image that is mostly surrounded by oyster beds and not worth approaching (2) stick near the marked channel as there are a number of sneaky oyster beds out there (after going around the northern part of the island, I felt my way around one of those halfway between North and CK because I wanted to get a better look at the local flock of white pelicans).

Let me know if you have any specific questions. CK is a paddler's paradise. Enjoy your time there and I'll PM you if I can get out there next weekend.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:55 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Cedar Key, FL
Pescatoral Pursuit wrote:
Pollo de muerte wrote:
All of my other yaks are on a floating dock in Cedar Key, so I'm spoiled in terms of launch and retrieval time. I don't mind putting in some extra work as long as I can handle it solo.

If you are a moderately fit, moderately athletic person, you can do it.

If you have any hidden/out of the way launch spots on the east coast near O-town for the TI, I'd love to hear about them. I'd rather not deal with crowded launch ramps if possible.

I don't like to fight traffic either. Isn't that the point of sailing?
Some places I sail that are easy to get in and out of except maybe peak weekend times:

Dinky Dock Park on lake Virginia off Aloma/ Fairbanks.
Lake Fairview at the park off Lee Rd and OBT near Lk. Fairview Marina. There you can also dock at the Shells restaurant and have a drink or meal.
Mount Dora public boat ramp or Tavares public boat ramp by the sea planes.
Lake Monroe/ Sanford ramp at the north end of Palmetto Ave next to the marina for "big water." Also Magnolia Park south of Apopka for Lake Apopka access. Lk Apopka is I think the 4th largest lake in FL but it is still a bit polluted.
Lake Ivanhoe off Orange Ave just south of Princeton if you want to show off to I-4 traffic. (Parking is minimum so off hours is best)

For saltwater there's:
Parrish park ramps or shore launch anywhere north to the entrance of Merritt Island Wildlife Refuge for Indian River access in Titusville.
Drive, park and launch anywhere on New Smyrna beach, Daytona, Ponce, South Daytona Shores.
Cocoa Beach has a lot of access on down to Melbourne.
Playalinda beach is difficult if not impossible to get a yak that size over the walks, but you can launch at Eddy Creek and have access to the South Mosquito Lagoon, and there's also Biolab boat ramp on the opposite (West) side and a little north. If the water is low there are several shallow flats to avoid but still a lot of open "deep" water to sail.
Lots of shore launch access to the Indian River and Banana River off of 528 and 520.


Regarding going into the wind, I found a post by fusioneng suggesting that he could make good headway in a TI by pedaling moderately while sailing very close to the wind. I've cruised on a motor sail yacht and I'm familiar with the concept, but I've never been able to achieve it in the Outback. I assume that the Outback being somewhat squirrelly and the mast for my overlarge sail being somewhat flexible are working against me on that rig, but I have not seen much confirmation that others have done this in the TI and I'm aware that fusioneng had a heavily modified TI, so I'm hoping for some confirmation on this point.


I can't speak to that method though it makes sense. Frankly I prefer to sail but if you have to cut time, pedal sailing or a small electric or gas motor sounds like the way to do it.

If you're going to beach launch, Powers' videos are a great primer. I've sail-launched on the west coast (LBK) the way he does but never had the guts to do it into the Atlantic where I pedal AND paddle through the breakers (with the blades up in case a wave pushes the boat backwards.) He also sails his TI right through the breakers back onto the beach whereas I orient my boat perpendicular to the waves/ shore, furl the sail, pull the drives, pull the rudder and skeg, then throw out a small sea anchor and drift in so the boat doesn't get sideways/ tipped/ damaged. (There is a YT video on this.) My method may not work with an offshore wind but they're rare here and I've never been confronted with one. Maybe do everything but leave the sail and rudder (not locked down) out.

The TI is very robust and can handle a lot of wind waves and surf as it is, just make sure before you surf launch, that you have the free upgraded aka spring lock kit installed otherwise a good jolt from a wave is likely to pop the aka out of joint. I found this out the hard way first time in the Atlantic however since I replaced them it's been rock solid.


Thanks for the pointers! I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on the TI, but it sounds like it would be a nice addition to the fleet. When I lived in Naples, I regularly surfed launched and beached my Outback, but the TI is on another level of difficulty and the east coast obviously has more wave action. I'd be looking to put in on the intercostal/river and then travel out; especially if I'm solo.

Thanks again!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:33 am 
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Location: Crystal River, FL
I have an outback, which led to a TI which led to an AI2... and I sail CK frequently (mostly in my sea pearl).

The islands are a whole different level than the outback. way faster and way more fun (albeit a touch more complicated). I ended up in the TI by myself all the time. the front seat worked good except in big seas (the rudder would lose bite) and the back seat was better in big seas. I ended up having to bring along ballast for the front seat. finally I decided that it was too much trouble so I bought and AI2. the AI2 is my happy boat so far. There is nothing about the TI that I miss. theoretically it should be faster though I have sailed with a solo TI and we were evenly matched then I slowly pulled ahead (then threw out the spinnaker and flew away).

Do you ever come out during the CK small boat meet? I am staying at Island Place and will most likely be in my sea pearl.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:55 pm
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Location: Cedar Key, FL
The Small Boat Meet is one of my favorite CK weekends.

I've definitely seen a couple Sea Pearls over the years. I usually cruise by Atsena Otie in the Outback and look at the boats beached there.

If you see a papaya Outback with an overlarge Star sail, that'd be me.

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