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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:55 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
I have some follow up questions relating to offshore/coastal sailing which I am hoping for some advice on:

1. Has anyone experienced the wind getting underneath your trampolines so far as to cause potential capsize? Should I be rolling them up in high gusty wind conditions, or just ignore it and trust the boat more?

2. Is there any advice on dealing with side on swell ? It seems OK if it is large/less frequent, but if it is continually very short intervals, back in June I was sailing beam reach and going basically parallel to the swell waves and I honestly felt like it was going to tip my boat over. Can a 3' swell knock you over like that if the conditions are rough enough? I guess I should have tried to change directions, like tacking a different course? In the end I rolled the sail and just pedalled but it took hours to get back. Might be a confidence thing too.

3. Has anyone managed to change a rudder pin out at sea? I had great difficulty getting the pin out even from land, I needed a hammer to tap it out! Can't imagine doing this out on the ocean. Maybe should add a hammer to my tool kit.....

Equally, I needed to adjust a screw and tighten it on my torqeedo when there was a swell which is mounted right on the rear, I didn't feel I could go and do it without being barrelled off the boat.

4. How do you ensure you don't lose your boat, tether on during rough seas - has its dangers as you can drown if falling off, but if you don't hold on enough you can fall off and your boat sail away. I keep my main sheet out of the cleat and wrap it around my hand twice to try and hold on when in rough conditions.

5. Landing in surf - I have never done a surf launch or surf landing, I hear surf landing is more risky/dangerous. I read someone suggesting pointing the boat out to see so you are facing the swell front on, and remaining more in control and then just letting the waves wash you back - I was thinking this could work quite well with the MD180, spin them in reverse and paddle reverse to get closer to shore, then when a wave comes spin them back forward and brace for the wave, don't know if its practical or not! Other people use a sea anchor, or even sand anchor to drag the ground to keep them facing straight back to the waves and not ending up side on and pushed over sideways.

6. Anyone set up specific capsize lines able to be deployed if you were to capsize out at sea?

7. Is an electric bilge pump a good addition?

Some tips I have:
try not to sail alone, particularly during your first offshore sails.

Look at satellite photos along your route to work out any safe landing spots so you can go to shore if you need to, in order to fix things.

Carry some spare rudder pins.

Swap out the plastic aka shear pin for a stainless steel one (this is controversial, a lot of people use rigging lines, I haven't got to setting those up), but if that pin breaks in surf you may capsize. But do so at your own risk, if you crash into a pontoon/jetty you may break bigger things.

I plan to somehow mount my EPIRB to be easily accessible. All my safety gear currently sits in a drybag which may be fumbling around too much to quickly get things if needed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWZy7sVr2I
this video has some good mod tips included for offshore use.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
winfield100 wrote:
I’m extremely intrigued by stringy’s blue canopy/?bimini?
How does it attach to the Aka’s. The center points.
Hints on where to get it

Hi Robert,
It was the largest 4 Bow Bimini I could find at a reasonable price on eBay. It is attached by a double knuckle clamp to a length of bimini tube that spans the akas. That tube simply hooks over the front aka and clips to the rear aka using a tube clip.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
dammit wrote:
I have some follow up questions relating to offshore/coastal sailing which I am hoping for some advice on:

Hi Damien,
Some answers:
1- whilst others have reported problems I never found it a real issue and I used the tramps all the time. Haka and hiking out helped.
2- islands are difficult to capsize and in 12 years of sailing them it never happened to me. Once again hiking out helps.
3–changed one pin successfully off Box Head. I carried a Leatherman Crunch which has vice grips.
4-I used the main sheet as a tether as well at times. Have never really come close to falling off though.
5-Surf landings are probably the most dangerous conditions for an Island. The few I’ve done I never managed to keep the boat straight. Once at Tidal River Wilsons Prom I jumped off the TI when it started going sideways, grabbed the stern and swam it in to keep it straight. I like the idea of the drogue but never tried it.
6- some have set up capsize lines. I remember a discussion on it in the forums. Hobie have advice in the instruction manual.
7- A bilge pump -manual or electric is a good idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 2:01 pm
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Location: SW Florida
stringy wrote:
winfield100 wrote:
I’m extremely intrigued by stringy’s blue canopy/?bimini?
How does it attach to the Aka’s. The center points.
Hints on where to get it

Hi Robert,
It was the largest 4 Bow Bimini I could find at a reasonable price on eBay. It is attached by a double knuckle clamp to a length of bimini tube that spans the akas. That tube simply hooks over the front aka and clips to the rear aka using a tube clip.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Stringy, Thanks for the tips on the Haka ideas.

Question: Do you or others that you know of ever try just using a Stand Up Paddleboard (SUP) as a Haka (basically just slap on top of the tramps. Exploring the idea of using the SUPs as Hakas and also be able to use the SUP/Haka to hold a small beach chair (sitting on top of the SUP) for a higher and drier ride. (need the width of the SUP ~ 32-33 inches) to hold the chair vs. a narrow Haka of 24". One risk that I need to explore....putting a SUP on the Akas with or without the tramps....will it be strong enough to stand on without snapping in half. Thoughts?

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Damit - see replies to your questions below:

1. Has anyone experienced the wind getting underneath your trampolines so far as to cause potential capsize? Should I be rolling them up in high gusty wind conditions, or just ignore it and trust the boat more?
- I generally sail without the tramps as most of my sailing is solo. When I have additional people onboard I use the tramps. I have never experienced wind strong enough to capsize the TI from just wind getting under the tramps. It does have some impact. Basically I try to keep the TI as flat on the water as i can via reefing to minimize this issue.

2. Is there any advice on dealing with side on swell ? It seems OK if it is large/less frequent, but if it is continually very short intervals, back in June I was sailing beam reach and going basically parallel to the swell waves and I honestly felt like it was going to tip my boat over. Can a 3' swell knock you over like that if the conditions are rough enough? I guess I should have tried to change directions, like tacking a different course? In the end I rolled the sail and just pedalled but it took hours to get back. Might be a confidence thing too.
- Generally best to keep the bow or stern into the waves. Sideways breaking waves can damage the TI (fold/break the Akas, I have broken several in surf launches / returns to the beach). Sideways in non breaking swells should not be an issue unless waves are large and steep. I routinely sail parallel to the waves / swells just not when breaking.

3. Has anyone managed to change a rudder pin out at sea? I had great difficulty getting the pin out even from land, I needed a hammer to tap it out! Can't imagine doing this out on the ocean. Maybe should add a hammer to my tool kit.....
- I have swapped the rudder pins a few times at sea. Mostly after a rough surf launch where waves pushed the TI backwards and the rudder hit the bottom (sandbar). The rudder pin failure can be hard to recognize at times. One or two of my videos showed a rudder pin replace at sea. Basically I lie on the stern facing the rudder with a replacement pin in my mouth....(I keep 4 or 5 spares in the rear hatch)....I generally leave the locking pin out at all times to help with the removal (locking pin is not needed in my opinion as the rudder pin stays in place). I can be hard to take the locking pin out while bouncing around in waves at sea. I sometimes need to use a screw driver to push out the broken pin from the rudder blade.

Equally, I needed to adjust a screw and tighten it on my torqeedo when there was a swell which is mounted right on the rear, I didn't feel I could go and do it without being barrelled off the boat.
- No experience with this .... using the Suzuki ....

4. How do you ensure you don't lose your boat, tether on during rough seas - has its dangers as you can drown if falling off, but if you don't hold on enough you can fall off and your boat sail away. I keep my main sheet out of the cleat and wrap it around my hand twice to try and hold on when in rough conditions.
- This is a good question. I have explored tethers but decided against given the complexity of the TI lines and cockpit layout. I have never had an issue of falling out of the TI in rough conditions....other than a capsize....

5. Landing in surf - I have never done a surf launch or surf landing, I hear surf landing is more risky/dangerous. I read someone suggesting pointing the boat out to see so you are facing the swell front on, and remaining more in control and then just letting the waves wash you back - I was thinking this could work quite well with the MD180, spin them in reverse and paddle reverse to get closer to shore, then when a wave comes spin them back forward and brace for the wave, don't know if its practical or not! Other people use a sea anchor, or even sand anchor to drag the ground to keep them facing straight back to the waves and not ending up side on and pushed over sideways.
- Surf launches and landings are very tricky and I recommend starting in small waves to learn the basics. My basic rules:
- Always keep the TI/AI facing into or away from the waves (if you get sideways - quickly correct or you can risk breaking the Akas.....
- Use speed any way you can get it (sail, peddle, motor) to punch out or in quickly. Key concept - keep forward momentum going with power to get through the waves Going slow will raise the risks. Recognize water returning to the sea (rips) or sideways flows will impact your speed and direction
- Understand the shallows (under the waves), sandbars (sometimes hidden) will bend / break the Mirage drives, rudder pins can snap.
- Keep Mirage drives out when near shallows
- Unlock the rudder to limit damage when hitting the shallows (I generally hold both the main sheet and the rudder down line in my and to keep both tight but able to release quickly.

6. Anyone set up specific capsize lines able to be deployed if you were to capsize out at sea?
- I have recently added capsize lines to both Amas - to help right the TI in a capsize. (I have three weeks of surf launches coming up soon). Hope NOT to use them!

7. Is an electric bilge pump a good addition?
- I have not used electric bilge pumps. I do keep a manual bilge pump mounted in a crate behind the rear seat for quick access. Did come in handy when I got a hole the TI hull offshore....had to pull the TI out on the beach every 60 minutes to pump out some water. Electric maybe a bit overkill but nice to have. I also not carry an emergency patch kit for hull damage.

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
powersjr2 wrote:
Stringy, Thanks for the tips on the Haka ideas.

Question: Do you or others that you know of ever try just using a Stand Up Paddleboard (SUP) as a Haka (basically just slap on top of the tramps. Exploring the idea of using the SUPs as Hakas and also be able to use the SUP/Haka to hold a small beach chair (sitting on top of the SUP) for a higher and drier ride. (need the width of the SUP ~ 32-33 inches) to hold the chair vs. a narrow Haka of 24". One risk that I need to explore....putting a SUP on the Akas with or without the tramps....will it be strong enough to stand on without snapping in half. Thoughts?

It has been done Jim. The disadvantages I see are cost, size and weight.
https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 4&p=242355
https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 8&p=293987


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:18 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
https://youtu.be/zDqHE7wsNs0

Hajime K (a Japanese TI’er) has a paddleboard , haven’t seen him use it as a Haka but he does use it as a camp platform for the front of his tent.


This is the one he uses

https://paddling.com/gear/starboard-sup-avanti-sup/

36” wide.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
All,

The Hobie Island Offshore Sailing - Zoom Event recording has been uploaded to YouTube.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/qCNz8_CBGdY

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:23 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Getting caught up on my video processing backlog.....

Enjoy this sail in the Port of Philadelphia on the Delaware River!

https://youtu.be/1gamuymFT9Y

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:28 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
awesome ! Can't wait to watch :)

Can you give any info on your gopro setup Jim, I saw in the opening frames of the video it looks like your rear gopro is connected to power ? Is that so, does that mean its not 100% waterproof if plugged in whilst sailing? Maybe I am seeing things!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:20 am
Posts: 186
Location: Bulgaria
There are many ways to power GoPro without compromising water resistance. I personally use Re-Fuel - 9 Hour ActionPack

The other solution is with a cable and a special case:


You can use a Hobie thru hull plug to plug the cables into the hull and plug them into an external battery.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:22 am 
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Location: SW Florida
powersjr2 wrote:
Getting caught up on my video processing backlog.....

Enjoy this sail in the Port of Philadelphia on the Delaware River!

https://youtu.be/1gamuymFT9Y

And interesting way to do a mirage 180 at ~23 min.
Take out drive, reverse put back in.
Also, did you get the folks on the Moshulu 4 master to toss down a Philly cheese steak sub? :? :D 8)
Looked like a fun time.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:21 am 
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I just had a chance to view the video of the zoom event which I missed due to a prior commitment. It was great to see such interest with an excellent conversation and sharing of key topics. Thank you, Jim, for hosting it.

If I'd been in attendance, here is a brief summary of the points I'd have made.

Hakas:
I've always wanted a set of hakas. What's stopped me, and I suspect others, is that I need to collapse the amas during launch and recovery due to space limitations at loading ramps. I don't know how to get around this issue.

Motors:
I believe I'm currently the only person who owns and uses both an outboard motor and a Torqeedo motor on a TI. I did this to research first hand the use of both as I've detailed in my forum review. The outboard can't be beaten for overall power and cost, but the Torqeedo is far easier to mount, use, and maintain. It's always ready instantly, no need to add gas, start it, warm it up, and engage the gearing. It's far more controllable, you can vary the speed much more precisely. The remote throttle also offers instant start/stop in forward or reverse, highly useful features not possible with a gas outboard. Overall convenience is clearly better. It's much lighter and easier on the hull. Unlike the outboard, it creates no starboard list, you almost don't know it's even there. As far as maintenance, virtually none is required. It should also be noted that, with the Torqeedo, you can set it up for either the front or rear seat for people who have a clear preference.

But the most striking difference between the two, at least for me, is the overall enjoyment. I own the Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard, it's a great motor and the best gas outboard to use with the TI in my opinion. However, when you compare the noise level with the Torqeedo, the difference is night and day. I use earplugs when using the Suzuki, not because it's so loud that it requires them, but because the constant loud drone gives me a headache. With the Torqeedo, the experience is far different. It's so quiet that it's nearly as peaceful as sailing under sail. This makes for a much more enjoyable day when lack of wind excludes the sail, which in my case happens quite often. I use the Suzuki only when I want to get somewhere as quickly as possible, all other times I use the Torqeedo which is so much more enjoyable overall. Yes, the Torqeedo is expensive, but if you value your precious recreation time, it's worth every penny.

The bottom line with motors, as was discussed in the meeting, is that every TI used in potentially dangerous waters should have one for safety.

Aka Pins:
I too now use stainless bolts to replace the plastic shear pins. The shear pins are simply too risky. It comes down to risking a dangerous capsize in rough conditions, which can be life-threatening or risking damage to the boat. The boat can be repaired or replaced but your or your passenger's life cannot. Hobie needs to address this issue on any redesign. Using shear pins was never a good idea. I've previously put forth the idea of using a spring or gas-loaded shock. With this design, the amas could momentarily collapse in an impact, preventing damage, but would pose no risk of collapse when sailing.

TI Redesign
The TI is a fantastic boat, I really enjoy mine and I can't go anywhere without people coming over to look at it and compliment it as Jim experienced in his Philly video. However, it's been around for a long time now, has some unresolved issues, and is due for a redesign. Jim's ideas are superb, we should all try to add ours as well. Our collective experience provides valuable insights for Hobie. I hope they recognize this and incorporate them into any updates or hopefully a full redesign. I, for one, would love to see a jib and the ability to legally install up to a 3 HP motor. If Hobie offered a new TI with these types of improvements added, I would be first in line to buy one.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
I found haka were easier to fit than tramps. Mine just hooked over the front aka and clipped onto the rear aka using tube clips.
Aussieonyak though came up with a very clever folding design that allows the aka to be collapsed with the haka still attached.
Details on Page 44 of the epic haka thread here:
https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... &start=645

A taster here in his prototype video:


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