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Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=53375		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  stringy [ Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Out TI sailing yesterday in around 20knot winds and had trouble furling the sail. Found the problem when packing up ...the mast receiver base plate(???) pin had snapped off.
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My TI is 4 years old, (one of the early TI's to make it downunder) so it's not a warranty issue but I can't recall reading of posts reporting the same pin break.

There doesn't seem to be a description/part# either for this in the catalogue?

My dealer is chasing it up but I'm wondering whether Hobie recommends this part be replaced every few years or so?

I guess it's subject to a bit of stress over time with use and there could be corrosion issues as well. It's very difficult to completely dry that area.
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
This part comes with the mast receiver. We don't stock spare base plates as this has not been an issue.

79514101 MAST RECEIVER CUP ASSY AI '08+ ($69.99 USD / USA)

Maybe the base plate pin is something that can be pulled from a freight or warranty damaged hull in Australia.
Author:  stringy [ Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Thanks for the quick reply Matt. 8)
I've removed the plate and taken some more pics. There was slight surface rust but it looks like the cause could be metal fatigue?
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There is no other damage, either to mast receiver or mast base.
I hope I can just replace the plate and not have to swap out the whole receiver!
Author:  NOHUHU [ Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Same failure happened here, in Hawaii. Fatigue, bad weld, rust, or all three.

Or could it be too much fun? :mrgreen:
Author:  Slaughter [ Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Get out the welder mate. Or if you haven't got one, I'd estimate that it's only a 6 pack fix for a boilermaker apprentice. ( trouble is trying to find one ). :roll:
Author:  tonystott [ Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
That's a bummer Mark, but aren't you glad it didn't go out near Broughton Island... nevertheless, I suspect Hobie Oz can retrieve a new pin out of a warranty hull. Slaughter's welding suggestion could get you mobile in the meantime.

Good luck.
Author:  Chekika [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
I don't understand. At the risk of raising the ire of forum TI lovers, I thought breaking that pin was one of the more common failures on the TI. I believe, in recent models, a better grade of stainless steel is being used to reduce or eliminate the problem. I have a friend in SFL who says he has broken 2 of those on his TI and now partially furls his sail in winds over 18 mph.

Keith
Author:  stringy [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Keith,
No ire here! This is a different problem that I wasn't aware of...which is why I posted. You're thinking of the socket screw issue (visible from inside the front hatch), which locks the whole mast receiver/v-brace to the hull. The material for this screw was toughened and I upgraded when it became available here. Had no problems since.

Russ and Tony,
I could drill it out and re weld it myself but it wouldn't be as neat! It needs to be a very fine weld so the mast spins freely. I'll see what solution Hobie AU offer first.
Author:  Slaughter [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Keith - Wasn't that a TI pin failure in the Watertribe challenge a few years back ?
Author:  fusioneng [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
I believe that pin is just pressed into the sheet metal from the back with a head on it. In a pinch you might be able to press in standard clevis pin (like they use on hitches). However I would think Hobie can find an extra plate from a scrap hull pretty easily and get it to you. I suspect this is one of those one in a million failures that just happens once in a while. I used to work in tool shops and once in a while we would be machining away at a billet of steel, and you might come across an old bolt or something buried in the steel (pretty much all tool steels and stainless steels are made from recycled steel). So it is likely the flaw was forged into the steel during manufacture (one in a million). A big clue is the grey fuzzy steel around the break (means it was flawed in the factory). I would just replace the plate with a used plate, and put it down as a fluke thing. Normally a pin like that in sheer should be able to withstand ten tons of force (if you look at a five ton chain hoist, a clevis pin just like this is all that holds the hook on).
My guess is something like this ever occurring again would be like being struck by lightning twice (unless you live in Florida lol)
Bob
Author:  fusioneng [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Slaughter:
I follow the TI's and the watertribe stuff pretty closely and don't remember any pin failures, but do remember several of the 1/4 inch studs breaking. As I have mentioned before the strain on that stud is huge, and can be easily snapped by just pulling the sail control line tight because of the 17 to 1 leverage on the mast receiver, (kind of a flaw in the mast design). Since Hobie went to the rolled high grade stainless studs, the problem is greatly reduced on stock TI's. The only people that need to re-enforce that area are the crazies like me who put massive sails (I have 260 sq ft) on their TI's.
Bob
Author:  Chekika [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
A couple years ago, BackwaterBob's TI mast came down in Shark River, about 25 mi from Flamingo. Fortunately, he got a tow, but it ruined his Everglades challenge. He completed the EC last year in that boat, but has since sold it. Tyro & Paddlecarver broke something in their TI mast base north of Cape Sable--30 mi from Flamingo--I believe that was a base pin failure (they showed a picture of it.) They are EC lifers but are using a Seda tandem sea kayak with a Hobie Tandem sail and amas this year. Also, a monohull sailboat with 2 competitors capsized off Cape Sable 2 yrs ago. Because of these problems, I sometimes refer to the Shark River mouth-Cape Sable-Flamingo area as the "Cape Sable Triangle" (like the Bermuda Triangle or Devil's Triangle--google it if necessary.)

When you think about it, it does not make a lot of difference whether it is the base pin or some other part of the mast base structure. The Tandem mast & sail places a lot of stress on the mast base structure. Failure is catastrophic and will ruin your day or your Everglades Challenge.

Keith
Author:  tonystott [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
Stringy, to help us understand the problem, could you please post some clearer photos? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  stringy [ Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
:lol:
Like Bob, it was my understanding that all the early mast failures were due to the V-brace socket screw failing.
I probably sailed for a few hours with the broken pin so this was not a catastrophic fail that ended the day. The mast receiver held it all in place OK.
A couple of other points:
- the base is made out of 1/4" stainless plate
-the pin is 1/2" stainless rod and is finely welded in place on both sides of the plate
-the pin also sticks out below the plate to locate it in the mast receiver.
As Nohuhu reported other failures, I'm wondering whether it should be made available as a separate part that is replaced after a couple of years to avoid metal fatigue?
I wonder whether the AI's have had any similar failures?
Author:  Yakaholic [ Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Broken TI Mast Receiver Base Plate?? Pin
This Mast Pin plate is obviously not molded into the mast cup. They are assembled at some point in the production of the TI & AI, Should be a very easy thing for Hobie to just assign this thing a part number and add it to the parts catalog. Who wants to go through all the work of replacing a mast cup assembly to fix an easily replaceable mast pin.

Having 3 Islands I'd be willing to buy an extra one just as a spare especially on long trips.

Come on Hobie give us some parts - :lol:
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