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| Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=53991 |
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| Author: | mswMelbourneFL [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
I couldn't have pulled off the hours I spent on the water today paddling alone. But dang they don't track for ----. I have three kayaks - an Ocean, an Emotion, and my Hobie. The Hobie, BY FAR, is the most difficult to paddle/peddle in a straight line. Wind blowing today really drove this home for me today. Take the hand off the rudder just long enough to make a cast and whiz! - off to the right. Zing - off to the left. It's truly maddening. |
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| Author: | Dr.SteelheadCatcher [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
You did not mention which model Hobie you own......if it's a non-PA model, suggest investing $35 for the sailing rudder and make sure the rudder line "slack" is adjusted/tightened up/removed. |
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| Author: | mswMelbourneFL [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
PA 12, 2013. I've tightened the rudder (thanks for the tip on the built-in turn for that), but I don't think it's just a rudder problem. Saturday was really baffling to me. I could point the nose into the wind, straighten out the yak and rudder and slowly paddle to stay close to position. Soon as my hand left the rudder handle though, I could get maybe one good cast in and the yak would veer off in one direction or the other. Then I tried stern into the wind. Then I tried no rudder at all, bow and then stern. Later, I gave up fighting and figured I'd just drift with the wind - done this many times in that behemoth _manufacturer-name-retracted_ tandem I have): point the nose toward the bank, turn sideways and just let the wind 'sail' the yak down the bank. Impossible. One drift I'd spin right, the next I'd spin left. No discerning which way or when, it just goes. And the rudder position didn't seem to matter. I literally resorted to paddling upstream of where I wanted and just found a spot on the bank to be blasted into. I'd fish from there, then push off and peddle 50 yards downstream and repeat. I posted when I first purchased the Hobie that it wasn't easier, it was just better - because I had the option of both peddle and paddle. While there is NO DOUBT the mirage drive has allowed me to cover a lot more water and fish longer, nothing beats a good old paddle and a solid tracking yak for staying on-point/making tight and controlled turns for fish. A turn in the Hobie requires much more forward progress than does a paddle. I can spin a 16' tandem yak with a paddle literally in place. To get the PA to turn in the direction I want from a standstill, I have to peddle and move at least 6-10 feet from where I'm at with the rudder cranked hard to port (or starboard) before it'll start turning. I know, I know - that's just part of the design and there's no way around it. Still aggravating when you're right there in the good spot, the wind blasts once and the bow starts to turn. Maddening. On a near windless day without strong current? The Hobie wins EVERYTHING hands down. Add a little something moving though - whether wind or water - and it can get frustrating very quickly. I don't know if it's the mirage hanging down in the water that gives it another axis point (or maybe the rudder in concert with it?) but there is just no doubt, in my experience on the water, you simply don't get solid, true tracking in the PA. It's a small price to pay - because everything else with the Hobie is just that much better - but a fact of life. Maybe I'll just start anchoring. |
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| Author: | SRAces [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
Strong winds will knock you around in the PA. I don't have the model with the new "skeg" or the longer rudder, so i can't comment on that. I've been in mine so long that I'm used tot he affects of the wind. You have to anticipate being blown around some as it has a lot of vertical side to catch the wind. I have found that if you're drifting downwind or having the wind "push" you along that keeping the Mirage flippers up against the hull helps tracking and steering. |
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| Author: | Dr.SteelheadCatcher [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
I better understand your problem now.....as noted the PA will get blown around by the wind and the rudder will not "answer the helm" unless the PA is moving. So, a technique that does work is to make "quick, rapid, short pedal strokes" and the PA will quickly respond and answer the rudder position. I have a 2013 PA-14 and installed the optional, larger rudder last year (P/N 84612001, $28)......I found it does help a little.....maybe a 15% improvement in steerage control. I installed the larger rudder because I do a lot of down rigger fishing at a depth of 25 to 125 feet. Caution.....Since I carry, launch, recover and store my PA-14 on a trailer, having the larger rudder, when retracted in the "up position", it still extends about 2" below the stern, for me is not an issue. However, if you need to stand/tip up your PA on the stern skid guards, don't install the larger rudder unless you make a 3" thick support spacer to prevent damaging the rudder assembly by lifting the stern off the ground to clear the larger rudder. |
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| Author: | mswMelbourneFL [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
The quick pedal strokes simple don't work for me on tight turns. If I need to make a sharp turn for any reason, I use the paddle. The rudder, for me, doesn't seem to do much other than when I'm actually pedaling down the river/lake: if I'm moving it responds to touch. Again, though, take you hand off it and whammo - zing - off you go. If I'm drifting with the wind and not actually moving forward, the rudder is useless and seems to have absolutely no effect on which way the boat turns. I guess it's just a function of sitting higher in the water and something to just put up with. Still, it seems bizarre to me I can't trust the boat to track straight and true. My _name-retracted_ tandem has a slight pull to STarboard (if I stop paddling and coast she'll eventually start moving to the right). My other kayak has the same but to port. Neither takes the swift, dramatic ZING off to the side that my Hobie does. |
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| Author: | mdfisherman57 [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
Well here is my opinion, I had an ocean trident 13 and went out on the cheasapeake bay on a very wind and high wave weekend and I made no ground with dealing with the winds, waves, and tide but all hobie kayakers around me had little issues. When you live close to 30 miles aways from the bay, you don't want a paddle kayak in this situation because you won't make it out without killing yourself. So with a little less ability to track compared to ocean kayaks it's well worth having hobie! |
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| Author: | Memory Maker [ Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
mdfisherman57 wrote: Well here is my opinion, I had an ocean trident 13 and went out on the cheasapeake bay on a very wind and high wave weekend and I made no ground with dealing with the winds, waves, and tide but all hobie kayakers around me had little issues. When you live close to 30 miles aways from the bay, you don't want a paddle kayak in this situation because you won't make it out without killing yourself. So with a little less ability to track compared to ocean kayaks it's well worth having hobie! It's more than a little less ability to track ........ A torqeedo on the back allows you to turn on a dime because you have basically 2 rudders in sync and power ....... |
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| Author: | mswMelbourneFL [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
mdfisherman57 wrote: Well here is my opinion, I had an ocean trident 13 and went out on the cheasapeake bay on a very wind and high wave weekend and I made no ground with dealing with the winds, waves, and tide but all hobie kayakers around me had little issues. When you live close to 30 miles aways from the bay, you don't want a paddle kayak in this situation because you won't make it out without killing yourself. So with a little less ability to track compared to ocean kayaks it's well worth having hobie! As I said previous, I wouldn't trade the Hobie - the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks. But the tracking issue is bizarre. Everything else on this thing is fantastic. Just installed my Lowrance and excited to put it through the ropes. My next project is kayak lights, followed by a trailer for it (I have a bed extender but I'm getting a little long in the tooth to keep lifting that yak). |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
mswMelbourneFL wrote: If I'm drifting with the wind and not actually moving forward, the rudder is useless and seems to have absolutely no effect on which way the boat turns. Yes, as with any boat and rudder... you have to have forward motion for the rudder to work. This is 100% normal for all types of craft. mswMelbourneFL wrote: (if I stop paddling and coast she'll eventually start moving to the right). My other kayak has the same but to port. Neither takes the swift, dramatic ZING off to the side that my Hobie does. It is primarily the drag from the drive when you stop powering. The drag is forward so will turn the boat at some point where drag overcomes forward motion. Mirage hulls are designed to turn... with a rudder, so not designed to track without one... with motion. You can not get a tight turn radius and tracking... there has to be a balance of design. We added tracking keels to the Pro Anglers for this reason, but those models are wide compared to length and have a lot of freeboard / wind surface that can change the hulls course. As I believe you found... tension steering lines to hold the rudder position if you release the lever. Add a larger rudder. Keep a slow pedal motion. Especially in wind or choppy water. If you have ever driven a power boat... same effects. Stop power, the boat turns. Helm is useless without power on. |
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| Author: | Wintersun [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
I went from the OK Trident to the Revo 13 and so no difference in tracking performance. The PA boats present more area to the wind and so I am not surprised that it gets pushed around. It will help when not pedaling to have the fins in the down position to act like a dagger board. Not doing this would make a big difference. |
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| Author: | fusioneng [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
I have no idea if this will help, but we have been using Hobie kayaks for a long time (several models), and they all have a common problem when paddling with no rudder and mirage drives, they tend not to track as well as a paddle kayak, I suspect because most paddle kayaks have more of a keel to make the kayak track straighter when paddling. What we do when paddling in current or rough conditions is throw out and drag a 10-15 ft line off the back of the boat in the center (off the stern) (usually either the anchor line or the sail control line). It kind of helps keep the boat from turning so easily from each paddle stroke. I have no clue if this will help on a PA, but thought I would mention it just it case it might help. Hope this helps Bob |
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| Author: | TDK [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
You might consider a drift chute to help control the attitude of the PA. As long as the chute isn't likely to snag anything, I've found this to work very well with my anchor trolley to slow my drift and keep the PA properly oriented for fishing. |
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| Author: | Thinwater skinner [ Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
I guess everyone knows that fishing into the wind is much better then trying to drif with the wind at your back... ? Right? Just thinking out loud. |
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| Author: | Kalgrm [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Don't get me wrong, I love my Hobie |
If "turning in place" is important to you, there's nothing stopping you taking a paddle out and using it. Of course, that's not going to help with the tracking, but you can still control the orientation of the vessel at low speeds that way, even if the vessel has pedals ... Cheers, Graeme |
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