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To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions...
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Author:  Archer444 [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions...
I picked up a nice little 14' McClain Jon Boat trailer this weekend (hard to pass it up at $200 and almost new) and have been trying to decide how I want to rig it out for my PA14. I will also be using my trailer to store my PA outside, covered.

I've put in some time researching other's designs and while it seems the general consensus points towards PVC, I have also seen others who use basically a flat surface (ex. utility trailer bed). I'm still leaning towards PVC, but it seems that it would be much more easier to use flat bunks (with maybe foam mats as cushioning?)- with the flat surface being more durable than PVC pipes that bend/flex and possibly crack/break in time with sun exposure. Any potential down sides for using a flat, cushioned surface? I know Hobie does not suggest storing a PA on a flat surface, but if the surface is cushioned?

On the other side- Which size/type PVC? I've seen people with 2, 3 and 4" pipes and not sure why there is such a discrepancy in sizes; as well as standard (plumbing) vs electric PVC? I have a cart with 2" PVC for my PA and it seems to let the PVC flex enough to help the yak 'seat' in the middle, but I'm not sure that 2" pipe will be strong enough for a PA bouncing on a trailer down the road. Also, what length should I use?

I'm definitely open to suggestions or opinions from those of you who trailer your PA's. Also, my trailer has 8" tires. This is the first time I've had a trailer with such small tires and not sure how road worthy they are. I will probably upgrade to 12" tires soon, but the current tires are practically brand new so I'm not in a rush. Anyone else with 8" tires on their trailers?

Sorry for the winded post...
Author:  TI_Tom [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
I'm working on upgrading my trailer to PVC for my TI. I went with 2" PVC. It might be a little flexible, but I figured I'm supporting the boat all the way down the hull and not just in two places like the cradles. I also have 8" tires, and I trailered all the way to OH and back last summer with no problems. It would probably be better with 12" tires, but it seemed to do just fine at 75ish on the highway.
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
I came up with the PVC idea precisely because I wanted something that would bend/flex and conform to the hull shape rather than requiring the hull to conform to a flat, straight bunk.
Author:  STLKayak [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
I went with 3" schedule 40 PVC cut in 8' lengths and mounted to Unistrut that I bolted to my HF trailer. Pretty much exactly what you have probably already seen on a dozen YouTube videos. I went 8' on the length because it seemed to cover the full weight of the kayak. You will also probably hear from some of the Hobie guys that manage the forms. They do not recommend PVC for transport or storage of the Pro Anglers. That being said, I have to believe they know what they are talking about, so to add some side support - in stead of using the Hobie Cradles which will not fit my trailer - I purchase a set of Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 Saddle style kayak carriers. I just received them today, and modified them to mount to Unistrut instead of C-channel roof racks. Ten minutes and $10 worth of hardware and I had them finished. I am going to place them on the four corners of my trailer to add side support to my PA14 along with the 3" PVC. I also special ordered some 11" wide bunk carpet to glue to the PVC. Not sure if it will add anything of value, but I am hoping a little protection...and if nothing else should look pretty good. Waiting on carpet to arrive.

Here is a picture of the Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 kayak carriers modified to bolt easily and adjustably to Unistrut. I don't have them mounted yet...the sun went down before I was able to attach them to the trailer. But I did test them on a scrap piece of strut and they worked great.

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Here is a picture of my trailer minus the saddles. If your interested I can post a picture with the saddles attached tomorrow.

Image

As far as tires go, check the speed rating of those on your trailer. I think that number of ply is as important or more important than the size. A good quality 8" tire is better than a cr@ppy 12", in my humble opinion. I went with 12" four ply, inflated to half their max...around 24-30lbs. I originally had them at 60 and they were way to bouncy. I have an entire year worth of trips on this trailer and tires - greater than 100 outings, and about 10K miles. Knock on wood but no issues with anything but an exceptionally bad trailer light wiring harnes, which has been replaced by a much less bad one.
Author:  Handler [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
If you can, spin that spare tire underneath. It will lower you center of gravity a bit, and every little bit helps.
Author:  Archer444 [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
STLKayak wrote:
I went with 3" schedule 40 PVC cut in 8' lengths and mounted to Unistrut that I bolted to my HF trailer. Pretty much exactly what you have probably already seen on a dozen YouTube videos. I went 8' on the length because it seemed to cover the full weight of the kayak. You will also probably hear from some of the Hobie guys that manage the forms. They do not recommend PVC for transport or storage of the Pro Anglers. That being said, I have to believe they know what they are talking about, so to add some side support - in stead of using the Hobie Cradles which will not fit my trailer - I purchase a set of Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 Saddle style kayak carriers. I just received them today, and modified them to mount to Unistrut instead of C-channel roof racks. Ten minutes and $10 worth of hardware and I had them finished. I am going to place them on the four corners of my trailer to add side support to my PA14 along with the 3" PVC. I also special ordered some 11" wide bunk carpet to glue to the PVC. Not sure if it will add anything of value, but I am hoping a little protection...and if nothing else should look pretty good. Waiting on carpet to arrive.


Yep- I've read that in a few places, but I'm not sure why? I can understand if there is barely any support in the middle to keep the PA hull from 'sagging' and subsequent deformation (or cracking) of the hull; however, seeing that long time members have been using this method without fail makes it seem fairly safe and secure. It's my first Hobie, so I'm probably wrong... Also, it seems that the cradles are the only 'approved method', but many who use them seem to quickly convert to PVC.

The previous owner literally only kept my PA14 on his trailer with 3" PVC pipes, for 4 years, for storage AND transport- and the hull was not deformed or cracked in any way. So I guess he was lucky? I definitely want to keep the old PA going strong, so I plan on having 3 unistrut cross-beams to support the PVC throughout contact length with the PA (to prevent sag). The front and rear cross-beams will have bolts to secure the PVC to the unistruts, and the I'll probably use commercial grade black zip ties for the middle to allow the PVC to 'slide' to let the PA find it's seat. Hopefully I'll be ok...

And, I'd definitely appreciate more pics of your trailer set up with the saddles in place. I really love your trailer- simple in design, yet very NICE!
Author:  STLKayak [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
I would actually like to mount the spare under the bed of the trailer but flipping it over and moving it under the PVC would be easier. The more weight over the wheels the better the trailer rides. I already removed two of the leaf springs and that made a world of difference. Though the next project is to add a pickup truck style ladder rack to the trailer so I can carry a second kayak over the PA. The problem is most of the ladder racks are only 30" or so high, and I would like the cross members to be more like 48 inches above the bed of the trailer. Also I thought about adding a third Unistrut channel in the middle of the trailer, but since the bed is only 4' long, I figured it would be overkill and a little sag might not be a bad thing.

One last thing, I added the Rhino-Rack saddles to the trailer. They fit better and easier than I could have hoped for...these, in addition to the PVC, should shore up the kayak nicely when hauling and storing short term between outings.

Image

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(I apologize for not wiping her down better when I came in on Sunday! That is unforgivable!)
Author:  Northern6060 [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Quote:
"in stead of using the Hobie Cradles which will not fit my trailer - I purchase a set of Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 Saddle style kayak carriers. I just received them today, and modified them to mount to Unistrut instead of C-channel roof racks. Ten minutes and $10 worth of hardware and I had them finished. I am going to place them on the four corners of my trailer to add side support to my PA14 along with the 3" PVC. "


OK, I'm doing a similar trailer modification and like the Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 saddle carriers you adapted. How exactly did you modify them to the Unistrut?

Appreciate your feedback....
Author:  Northern6060 [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Archer444 wrote:
STLKayak wrote:
I definitely want to keep the old PA going strong, [b]so I plan on having 3 unistrut cross-beams to support the PVC throughout contact length with the PA (to prevent sag).[/b] The front and rear cross-beams will have bolts to secure the PVC to the unistruts, and the I'll probably use commercial grade black zip ties for the middle to allow the PVC to 'slide' to let the PA find it's seat. Hopefully I'll be ok...

And, I'd definitely appreciate more pics of your trailer set up with the saddles in place. I really love your trailer- simple in design, yet very NICE!


OK, Archer 444 I really like your plan, agree that adding the third cross-beam looks way sturdier than half of the jury-rigged videos out there... 8) 8)

Can you send pics of the 3 unistrut crossbeams you put in? Also, any pics of how you bolted the unistrut to the trailer...and any pics of the rigging the black zip ties....
Author:  SRAces [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Great work on the trailer! :mrgreen:
Author:  STLKayak [ Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Northern6060 wrote:
Quote:
"in stead of using the Hobie Cradles which will not fit my trailer - I purchase a set of Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 Saddle style kayak carriers. I just received them today, and modified them to mount to Unistrut instead of C-channel roof racks. Ten minutes and $10 worth of hardware and I had them finished. I am going to place them on the four corners of my trailer to add side support to my PA14 along with the 3" PVC. "


OK, I'm doing a similar trailer modification and like the Rhino-Rack Nautic 580 saddle carriers you adapted. How exactly did you modify them to the Unistrut?

Appreciate your feedback....


Sent you an email on the modifications, let me know if you have any other questions. I know the email was a little half-@$$ so i really did not want to post it to the forum!
Author:  Tarheel69 [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
STLKayak wrote:
I would actually like to mount the spare under the bed of the trailer but flipping it over and moving it under the PVC would be easier. The more weight over the wheels the better the trailer rides. I already removed two of the leaf springs and that made a world of difference. Though the next project is to add a pickup truck style ladder rack to the trailer so I can carry a second kayak over the PA. The problem is most of the ladder racks are only 30" or so high, and I would like the cross members to be more like 48 inches above the bed of the trailer. Also I thought about adding a third Unistrut channel in the middle of the trailer, but since the bed is only 4' long, I figured it would be overkill and a little sag might not be a bad thing.

One last thing, I added the Rhino-Rack saddles to the trailer. They fit better and easier than I could have hoped for...these, in addition to the PVC, should shore up the kayak nicely when hauling and storing short term between outings.





Below is pic of the rack I put on my trailer. I purchased from Oak Orchard Canoe (http://www.oakorchardcanoe.com/trailex.php). The bottom vertical tubes were actually shorter than I wanted to get the height needed but is 1" square tubing so went down to Lowes and purchased 4 pieces and cut to length I needed. Getting ready to add another set of PVC pipes to the top rack for a third yak. Sorry the pic is not a close-up but will have other pics over the weekend if want to see a closer view.

Image
Author:  STLKayak [ Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Would definitely appreciate a close up or two. Is that Unistrut you used for the side extension, u-bolted to the side of the trailer? Would like to see how you attached those to the rack itself. Thanks in advance.
Author:  SRAces [ Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Keith,

That's a nice looking setup. :mrgreen:
Author:  Archer444 [ Mon May 02, 2016 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: To PVC or not to PVC- and a few other trailer questions.
Here she is...
Image

Quick recap of my build:
-I used 3" grey PVC (12' length) pipes, spaced ~11.5" from center in front and back.
-I used my trailer's existing bunk mounts for my unistrut pieces (was a son of a gun to drill through!) and mounted them with 3/8" bolts. One piece at 40", and the other two at 38".
-I used spring nuts with 3" 3/8 bolts mounted through the bottom. This made it somewhat easier to mount and secure my pipes. Pipes where secured to the bolts with a large washer, locking washer, and nylon nut. I had to use tape and fishing line to bring my washer assembly through the PVC. I tilted the pipe 90deg (on it's side) in order to prevent the nut from falling out of my socket wrench and 'started' the thread. The assembly was left 'loose' so that I could 'see' where my kayak would sit and secure it to the unistrut later. *In hind site, the springs drove me nuts in trying to keep a box wrench on the bolt while tightening the nylon nut from inside the pipe. I ended up removing all the springs!! Much easier...
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-I kept the winch on my trailer, but replaced the roller guide with a "V- guide" that I rotated (had to drill a new hole) to accept the front handle of my PA

A few caveats:
-I had to 'guestimate' where a majority of the weight from my Hobie would be and how it would sit on the trailer before I decided where my middle cross-beam would be. I ended up placing my middle beam 5 feet from the end, with roughly 2' of my kayak sitting off the end of my trailer. (I'll post a kayak pic later).
-I currently have 8" trailer tires. I'm not sure how they will 'ride', but I like them (keeps my kayak a bit lower so I won't have to back down the ramp so much).
-I have the end caps of my PVC pipes duct taped on, with a piece of foam to help my PA run over the cap ridge. It might look cheesy, but it works great! *All ridges/holes were sanded nice and smooth.
-And last, but not least, it seems a bit tongue heavy. I will probably have to move the axle up just a bit as I don't want my PA hanging much further out than it already is.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to test her roadworthiness this coming weekend!
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