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| Sailor Dies-Caught in Rigging underwater http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11219 |
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| Author: | Hammond [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sailor Dies-Caught in Rigging underwater |
Just a few days ago on Sailing Anarchy there was a brief note of a college age sailor that drown off Oahu. He was a skilled crew on a high performance skiff (Ausie 18??). The other crew member on the boat was a skilled sailor and strong swimmer who had to dive multiple times to untie knots to release the drown crew. He made it to the hospital, but did not survive his injury. It was not clear from the article if the trap hook was what caused the hang up or if it was other equipment. Either way, I now think it's time to look for better quick release harness hooks and maybe a strong rigging knifes. Doug Skidmore shared a close call story with me a while back on his boat at New Caledonia. I have been cat sailing for over 35 years and have never had a close call, but it could happen to me or my crew tomorrow. What was once just a theoretical possiblility has now tragically happened. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:05 am ] |
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I think the skiff guys use a continuous trap line system, so they are tied to the boat. That is why the crew had to dive multiple times to untie half hitches. This was not a "hook" issue I believe, but Doug's experience was. His crew hooked the shroud and spun 180 degrees as the boat went over. The problem is getting a hook-less system that is safe. You also don't want to lose the crew as the connection fails. That can also be a problem as the crew is separated from the boat. |
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| Author: | Hammond [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hello Matt, The crew that did the diving was Ken Karnes' (Wild), long time member at MBYC, oldest son. Captive system or not, maybe we can make a release system that works. Mike |
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| Author: | ncmbm [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:07 am ] |
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I read that article several times, the hook wasn't an issue. I believe they were using a tether system that had to be untied to free him. My harnesses have quick release bars on them but I'm not sure in a panic I could actually release it. I have been caught up in rope and wire under the water more than once and its not a pleasant feeling. I find life jackets actually can make the situation worse and rarely wear one offshore. I am life guard certified and aware of the risk I take by not wearing a jacket so don't try to flame me on that one. There are just too many things for the jacket to hang on when under the boat. High speed catsailing is an extreme sport and as such there are serious consequences. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:14 am ] |
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We have been working on some designs for hook less or releasable trapeze, but nothing yet that is reliable and safer. |
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| Author: | Tom Machette [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:39 am ] |
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How about making it so that the trap lines are made of spectra like on the Fx-1. This would make it easier and faster to cut some one free rather than having to unhook or untie some one. |
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| Author: | hobie18rich [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
More details on the incident...apears it was the hook: "Wild was on the recreational boat with Wenner the day of the accident, 1.5 miles off Waikiki Beach. The high-performance skiff, which capsizes easily if not moving forward, had already capsized five times that day. On the recreational boat were teammates, instructors — all experienced sailors. Wenner, wearing a harness, was standing off the edge of the boat. When the boat started to tip, he knelt down, and the harness hook got caught in the weblike netting that stretches between the hull and the outriggers of the boat, Wild said. "Almost immediately someone from the chase boat jumped off and tried to save him," Wild said. Everybody already in the water dived down and "tried as hard as they could to free P.J." It took a while before they figured out where the problem was. "It was twisted so tight, we couldn't free that," he said. "We were all diving underneath," Wild said, but without goggles "we couldn't see how to free him." |
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| Author: | Hammond [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:31 am ] |
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Just to clarify Wild/Karnes are the same person. Recent name change has Ryan listed as either Wild or Karnes. Tragic |
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| Author: | Hammond [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:21 am ] |
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SAFETY REMINDER On November 8, our son Ryan Wild was sailing on an 18' skiff off Waikiki with University of Hawaii Sailing Team mates Shark Kahn and Peter "PJ" Wenner. A routine capsize turned into a tragic accident when PJ's trapeze hook got caught in the mesh webbing on the hiking rack and the boat quickly went turtle, trapping PJ under the water. Although Ryan and his team mates were finally able to free PJ, it was too late… A number of us are still using old trapeze harnesses that do not have quick release hooks. Because of fatalities such as PJ's, there are now trapeze harness hooks with quick release devices. Several manufacturers make the new hooks/spreader bars which can be used on many existing harnesses. I would encourage everyone who has an old trapeze harness to immediately replace their harness or at least the spreader bar hook with a new quick release version. Whether or not you sail a trapeze boat, please make it a priority now, to inspect your boat, rigging, life jackets and related equipment to insure the continued safety of you and your crew. Ken Wild |
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| Author: | sail.fast24 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Could someone post some pics of the old and new harness hooks? How would I know if I have quick-release hooks? |
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| Author: | J_Eaton [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:29 am ] |
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Here's one model that could easily be retrofited to most harnesses by RWO. The second is Magic Marine, same as used on our Aquata harneses, again would fit most harnesses. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/232518?&cid=chanintel&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=232518 http://shop.ldcracingsailboats.co.uk/index.asp?selection=detailed&uid=9349&itemtitle=Safety%20Spreader%20Bar |
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| Author: | 38hog [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:49 am ] |
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Here is an idea from the hanggliding community. Peter Birren is the invenor and a great guy. I am not sure if he is still producing these but it would not be difficult to do in your workshop. And the cost is very low. http://www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html |
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| Author: | MRL [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree a quick release hook is a good idea. To back that up I have a Benchmade rescue hook attached to one of the sholder staps of my trapeze harness. The rescue hook is a pull type of knife used by paramedics to cut seat belts, webbing , pants and jackets. |
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| Author: | bcloud76 [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | functioning of quick release hooks |
I'm trying to understand the mechanics of the QRH vs. what's on the old harness that I've been using. From what I've seen, am I correct that the release mechanism actually allow the hook to totally detach from the plate that holds it? We typically don't sail in extreme conditions, but being I'm a novice and have yet to experience any challenging situations while hiked out, I'm thinking the new hook could be peace of mind as well as a lifesaver in an emergency. |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: functioning of quick release hooks |
bcloud76 wrote: Am I correct that the release mechanism actually allow the hook to totally detach from the plate that holds it?
Exactly. Mine has a mechanism like a rip cord next to the hook. All I have to do is yank the cord and the hook is forcibly ejected from the spreader bar. 
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