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Navigation Lights
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15348		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  sailorsloan [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Navigation Lights
I do like to sail at night and remembered seeing a post about Lazer Stiks. They are made by Egear. They look like chem lights but battery powered. I thought that being able to see both colored lights on both sides of the boat wouldn't be good for others to see. I discovered Egear's Guardian signal lights. I think they would be perfect Nav lights for all Hobies. You can use velcro straps with these. Check out http://www.batteryjunction.com/egesge.html for the best price on these. You can check out the Lazer Stiks here http://www.essentialgear.com/store/p/63 ... ed=froogle. Also those who need a around stern light check out Tektite which has two Leds or four. http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=3065
Ps I went and looked at the Guardian light and the are small but
bright. Going to buy Set and will test them out on land. They would
work well with lifevests.
Author:  Roy [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
I just took a water proof flashlight and attached it to the bottom of the sail, when the sail is lit up like that everyone can see you. :wink:
Author:  Tom Machette [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Ive always used different color glow sticks just zip tied to the bridals.
Author:  Richard1 [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Roy wrote:
I just took a water proof flashlight and attached it to the bottom of the sail, when the sail is lit up like that everyone can see you. :wink:

I saw the "wink" but I have to ask, you're kidding, right?

Sadly, someone will think this is a good idea.
Author:  IndyWave [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Is there a reason you think this is a bad idea?

Generally all that's required is a flashlight you can shine at oncoming vessels, as long as your boat is under 22ft and non-motorized.

I'm not advocating the bare minimum, but a flashlight-illuminated sail is much more visible than that. Certainly more visible than a glow-stick.
Author:  hobieandy [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Richard1 wrote:
Sadly, someone will think this is a good idea.

It is a great idea! The sails glow! People from all around the lake can see your sails, and have told me its pretty cool looking! I would check your state laws to know what is required, but in Iowa a flashlight is all you need!
Author:  xanderwess [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
That's funny. Sailing in Iowa. Who would do that? Especially at night?
Author:  Little Wing [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
In south Dakota you need nav lights on the bow, that means one red on one bow and one green on the the other, also a white light 3 feet off the water on the stearn, illuminating the sail is cool but that alone will get you a ticket in SD.
Author:  Little Wing [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
hobieandy wrote:
Richard1 wrote:
Sadly, someone will think this is a good idea.

It is a great idea! The sails glow! People from all around the lake can see your sails, and have told me its pretty cool looking! I would check your state laws to know what is required, but in Iowa a flashlight is all you need!



This is not true, you have to have red and green bow lights as well as a stearn light, in Iowa you also must have a flashlight.
Author:  Richard1 [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Be safe out there
What is the wattage of your flashlight? What is the intensity of the beam? How do you rig it to consistently illuminate your sail? Is it visible from all quadrants? What method do you employ to ensure your light stands out from background lights? How have you determined that shining a light on the sail is satisfactory in accomplishing the desired objective of being seen by other boaters?

I've almost run over several sailboats who use a light to light up the sail. Several times were offshore, away from any lights except the star filled sky. In that blackest of night their "illuminated" sail was nothing of the sort. They labor under the false pretense that they have adequate lighting. They feel safe, at ease, and this lulls them into a false sense of security. I don't know which is the larger threat; sheer ignorance or outright stupidity. I do know neither belongs on the water.

A couple times we narrowly averted a collision. One of those, the other boat did see us but did not maneuver away because he thought we saw him, in fact he crossed our bow only a couple boat lengths away. He admitted seeing our lights and being certain of our relative bearing. IOW, he was complacent due to his erroneous belief that he could be seen. Right of way was ours but being right isn't worth anything if it means you subject yourself or others to injury.

I just remembered another incident: we were returning from Catalina under full canvas. We were preparing to round the Long Beach breakwater at the Queen's light. Some guy in his smaller boat motoring shone a light on his main. We were on stbd tack and to the SE east of him so that would have had us crossing port to port. Except we didn't see him and were preparing to change tacks. Here again he didn't stand off because he had the impression he was visible to us. His dim light was lost in the background lights and their reflection on the waters. It was a close call. Very easily he could've ended up on the rocks skewered with a bow sprit.

Nearshore or on inland waters I imagine it would be even more difficult to see a boat against a background of lights. Even in absence of those background lights, the near skyline of terrain or trees would tend to obscure a vessel. What I'm saying is this method of lighting is woefully inadequate and there are several reasons why that is.

I've been blessed with 20/15 vision in both eyes and still don't need glasses even though I'm 51 yrs old (full eye exam twice a year). My night vision is superb. In fact, on a recent boating, I was able to see islands and shoreline and flotsam without artificial light which my buddy with his million candle power spot could not see. Anecdotal, yes. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with my vision although when I should narrowly miss your vessel you should look to the your lighting as being at fault. Even still, the waters and night air can set up visual illusions which trick the eye. A dim light can be hard to interpret.

Acknowledging that this is a Hobie forum and not a general boating forum, I suppose I am over reacting. While I've sailed Hobies for decades, my time on the water has not been limited to Hobie cats or inland lakes. Further, I suppose I sound like a mad demon on the water yet I assure you I'm a cautious skipper. It was my livelihood for gosh sakes.

I am saying that it has been my experience that such a means of lighting has proven to be insufficient and can lead to a sense of complacency. As always, it is for each skipper to decide.

This is a good time to mention to the Bismarck Darius story. He was railroaded for sure, but my point here is the question of whether even proper lights were visible.
Author:  xanderwess [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
So you're saying when we were half in the bag in 15 kt winds in Yankton sailing at 11pm with nothing but a glow stick, we were breaking the law?
Author:  Tom Machette [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
xanderwess wrote:
So you're saying when we were half in the bag in 15 kt winds in Yankton sailing at 11pm with nothing but a glow stick, we were breaking the law?



All right meow. Hand over your license and registration.
Author:  hobieokc [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Quote:
In south Dakota you need nav lights on the bow, that means one red on one bow and one green on the the other, also a white light 3 feet off the water on the stearn, illuminating the sail is cool but that alone will get you a ticket in SD.


From the South Dakota Boating Laws and Responsibilities:

Quote:
If less than 23.0 feet long vessels should:

If practical, exhibit the same lights as required for unpowered vessels less than 65.6 feet in length.
If not practical, have on hand at least one lantern or flashlight shining a white light as in fig. 3.


There is even a picture of a sailor shining his flashlight into the mainsail.
Author:  IndyWave [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
I'm interested to know what you think IS adequate lighting, which can be seen from all quandrants, at any speed, against any background, and cannot be mistaken for any other light source, which also indicates tack and rhum line.

No, you can't just assume you're always visible to the other boater, you still have to act responsibly.

But nothing will prevent a collision with a speeding drunken sheriff who has no regard for human life, and is defended by a corrupt District Attorney with no knowledge of boating laws.

On my lake, one of our club members was hit by a pontoon boat, driven by a teenage girl who was so drunk she had passed out at the wheel. The lake patrol caught up with the boat, which continued on (her friends tossing bottles off as it went), and air-lifted her to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. Neither she nor her parents were charged with any crime.
Author:  xanderwess [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navigation Lights
Am I a cat, boy?? Do you see me jumping all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree? Do you see me drinking from a sauser of milk? Eating a mouse?
Not so funny Meow.
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