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| Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20686 |
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| Author: | JJ [ Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
For those who have to rig every time out... Normally regular loose pin bow shackles do fine. But after the shackle pin did not get tightened well last season several times out, the captive pin sounds like it might put the loose shroud, forestay, or bridle worry to rest?  Loose pin shackle.  The captive pin shackles advert locking after tightening. Already put Loctite blue on all threads not rigged every time out, since screw on mainsheet unfastened itself. |
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| Author: | Roy [ Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Its like a cop friend tells me, over 90% of people whose home gets broken into will invest in a security system AFTER the fact. As an ex comercial pilot I take a quick walk around the boat to check all the fittings before I go sailing. |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Roy wrote: Its like a cop friend tells me, over 90% of people whose home gets broken into will invest in a security system AFTER the fact. As an ex comercial pilot I take a quick walk around the boat to check all the fittings before I go sailing. My old man flew for NWA for 27 years. He turned me into an obsessive compulsive when it comes to checking things prior to doing anything. I know how it goes. 
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
I'm a big believer in the adage, "An ounce of prevention saves a pound of cure." So what if I spend an extra five minutes if it saves me an hour or more of headache later? For example, I rigged the boat on a public beach one day, sailed, and left it there overnight. Came back the next day and shoved off without checking much, then half an hour out I discovered some clown had unscrewed a hull plug. I made it to shore safely, but I learned a lesson. |
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| Author: | jmecky [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
That clown was you. You just forgot you did it. What random person would walk up to a random Hobie and unscrew only one plug. Nobody has enough Ice in their veins to want to sink random persons boat, or am I being naive. |
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| Author: | MVD [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
You're naive. The same "ice in their veins" people that would run a key down the paint of someone's new car wouldn't bat an eye at removing a drain plug. |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Nope, it wasn't me. I sailed a few hours then beached the boat for the night and left the rudders on. Someone made a deliberate effort to get under the rudder, lift a rudder pin (must be done on an 18 since the rudder pin gets in the way of unscrewing the hull plug), and unscrew the plug. However, the point is - don't assume, check it. |
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| Author: | hobie18rich [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
The lesson never leave your boat on a public beach near me. |
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| Author: | Karl Brogger [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
hobie18rich wrote: The lesson never leave your boat on a public beach near me. I piss my pants leaving a boat anywhere but in my driveway, or at a regatta. At least in my driveway I can stuff a .45 in someones ribcage and ask them politely wtf they think they're doing. But, I'm known to be a bit paranoid..... |
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| Author: | xanderwess [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Karl, I have never known you to be OCD or paranoid. |
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| Author: | JJ [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Buried in here somewhere... was a question, actually. My question was: Do the captive pin bow shackles really work as advertised? And prevent a shackle from being an un-shackle? Have never had a mast fall. But have had pins that could be removed easily by hand while un-rigging. Which was chilling. I don't white-knuckle the pins with pliers, but I do tighten firmly. And double-check more closely now. Yes, the pins do loosen up at times. I tighten the pins with one of these:  Nah, they're not all mine. Some guy left his boat on the beach... |
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| Author: | srm [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
Quote: My question was: Do the captive pin bow shackles really work as advertised? And prevent a shackle from being an un-shackle? Couple things... Unless I'm mistaken, on a 16, there technically is no "bow shackle". The bow tang should secure directly to the eyelet in the bridle wire- a shackle is not required. So if you have shackles there, your best bet is probably to just get rid of them. However there are plenty of other places that use shackles. When I see the term "captive pin" shackle, I think of a shackle that has the pin flared at the end so it can not be separated from the main body of the shackle. You unscrew the pin and slide it back so the shackle is fully opened, but you can not actually remove the pin from the shackle. This type of shackle can come unscrewed the same as any other type of shackle, you just can't lose the pin (unless you lose the whole shackle). The shackle you show in the picture has a hole in the pin which would allow you to pass a safety wire through to wrap around the main body of the shackle. This type of shackle would not be able to come undone under any circumstances unless the wire is cut. Typically these are only used on Hobies where all the shrouds are connected to the mast tang. So this type of shackle is definitely more secure than a standard shackle. I use loctite on all threaded shackles that are not typically loosened. Also crank down on them using a good set of pliers (multi-tools are nice, but they generally don't provide as much torque as a good set of pliers). Another option is to use shackles that use a clevis pin rather than a threaded pin. Then tape the pin to prevent it from snagging. sm |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
OK, just to clear up about leaving a boat on a public beach, I left it on Leadbetter Beach in Santa Barbara surrounded by 50 other cats parked there for the season, and they've been doing that for 40 years. I had to go to the harbor master to get a weekend pass specifically for parking my boat on the sand. Hobies on that beach are expected. The only things I left on the boat were the mast, tramp, rudders, tillers, tiller crossbar, and hull plugs. Someone just picked mine to mess with for whatever reason, hence the lesson I learned not to assume the boat is fine. Sheesh. . . I'm lucky that clown didn't remove a ring ding or two. As far as captive pins go, the only benefit I've noticed with them is that you won't lose the pin in the sand or drink by mistake. Yeah, I've done that, too. Rich, I think you were with me the last time it happened at Woodward. |
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| Author: | JJ [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
The advert on the Wichard brand captive pin says: Quote: It can be operated with one hand. The pin simply cannot be lost. Even unscrewed, it remains captive in the shackle. Wichard captive pin shackles also have the patented self locking feature. So, two things: pin won't drop out and, second, it has a "self locking feature". Whatever that is. Just wondered if anyone used them. Normally regular loose pin bow shackles do fine. Self locking pin would be just one less thing. Other cat sailors have mentioned losing pins -- or nearly losing pins -- and shackles getting out of shape under the load. Two mentioned main troubles. On the cheaper fittings, the break ratings are probably not reliable. Quote: Another option is to use shackles that use a clevis pin rather than a threaded pin. Yeah, looked for those with no luck. Skipshot, lot of time it is the location where the boat is stored. Some places are no worry. With some I might be like Karl. No telling about Karl though, he may have just been on his man period at the time... |
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| Author: | J_Eaton [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Loose pin or captive pin bow shackles? |
keep looking for one similar to this (Wichard with the self-locking feature) |
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