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Pitch Pole Question
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51651		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  drjay44 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Pitch Pole Question
So I am close to buying my first cat. Appreciate the help in my other post, "First Catamaran: Need Some Advice".

Looks like it will be an H16. I did see a nice Nacra 500 for a good price but called one day after it sold. Maybe I was destined for a Hobie. Likely a new boat as I just cannot find a late model for sail. i have checked Craigs, this forum, Beachcats etc.

Yes there are some H16 but they all seem to have some issues . Mostly at least 15 years old or older. I want a newer or new boat to assure I'll have no issues to deal with.

I understand pitchpoling and looks like a fun way to cool off and practice righting.

If you are hooked into the trapeeze what happens? Do you just sort of swing in the air and unclip? Is there some type of quick release mechanism?

Oh yes, on a new Hobie is MSRP firm or is it standard to haggle with the dealer. I don't want to be a dick but if I can save a few hundred why not ?
Author:  Skipshot [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
It's difficult to predict what happens to the crew in a pitchpole. I've had crew on the wire Tarzan into the mast and terribly bruised his upper arm. Other times we have simply splashed into the water. Sitting on the tramp while pitchpoling sends everyone into rigging. Whatever happens to the crew, in general, a pitchpole comes as an unwelcome, unexpected, and unpleasant surprise, but on the bright side, you have a much higher chance of survival than you may think.

There is no quick-release mechanism, but harness designs have improved and made entanglements less likely.

If you can afford a new Hobie 16 and feel you will get your money's worth out of ownership then go for it. You will not be disappointed. Also, a new 16, compared to models from the early 80's, has considerably more mast rake (the mast leans astern) which makes for better pointing into the wind and diminishes pitchpoling. Also a new 16 will come with the latest go-fast equipment (blocks, rudders, new sails) which will garner the envy of other 16 owners and impress the chicks.

As for negotiating price, there really isn't much wiggle room like with a car, but that doesn't mean you can't ask since you never know what a dealer may be trying to unload. But when you consider the bang-to-buck ratio a Hobie provides compared to other fiberglass boats its size, with a huge following, a large racing class, parts availability, and nearly universal recognition, as well as resale value, then the extra bux may be worth it. Also, Hobie dealers aren't in it for the money, but instead have a sickness for the things and want to addict as many people as possible to keep their sickness alive. Besides, the little extra you pay up front instills good customer service in the future.
Author:  PurdueZach [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
Skipshot wrote:
Also a new 16 will come with the latest go-fast equipment (blocks, rudders, new sails) which will garner the envy of other 16 owners and impress the chicks

Most important thing to consider when buying a new boat
Author:  PurdueZach [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
drjay44 wrote:
Oh yes, on a new Hobie is MSRP firm or is it standard to haggle with the dealer. I don't want to be a dick but if I can save a few hundred why not ?

A lot of it depends on how many they sell in a year. The Hobie dealer here has a "new" 16 that has been sitting for at least a year (maybe 2). You can't even say that it's new anymore because it's been outside for a couple years. I would bet that they would give a great deal to someone who wanted to get it off their lot.
Author:  OlderBowman [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
pitch poling, going head over forward, happens nearly exclusively going downwind, usually on a broad reach. unlike flipping sideways on a beat or reach. on the H16 the bows have very little bouyancy up front which is why it happens at all. you get a bow buried either in a wave or by a gust and the boat stops very quickly. if you're not attached to something momentum takes you forward fast.

when I owned my H16, like many I installed a foot strap on the deck edge right in front of the rudder. when trapping out your aft foot is stuck through the strap giving you resistance from going forward. its not completely foolproof. you want weight way aft anyway in any kind of breeze. at any kind of speed a pitch pole will have both you and your crew prescribe a nice arc through the air and land out in front in the water with the skipper landing on the hapless crew, since both traps lines are the same length, been there.

today on my H18 I have the foot straps, though the bows have plenty of bouyancy if you bury a bow, you won't pitch over, but momentum is still there and you want to stay put.
Author:  ToddE [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
I have made the trip a time or twenty in the last 30 years, and from the wire I have only hit the shroud once. Lucky I guess. Mostly it is really funny.
I have never been or felt tangled in the rigging or trap wire, I honestly don't know if I come unclipped or if I unclip myself in the water.
Many of the new harnesses have a quick release on the hook\spreader bar, I have a pair of Gill full harnesses with that feature though I have gone back to using the Hobie harness for comfort.

-Todd
Author:  turbofan [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
I'm not seeing pitchpoling as a fun way to get wet and practice righting! In my opinion, it's best avoided. It usually occurs at speed, and unless you've got straps or a strong foot on the pylon, you go flying around the bows, tethered by the trap wire. One of the first times this happened to me-maybe37-38 years ago, I caught my foot on something- I think maybe a shroud chain plate as I flew past- and wound up with a 7 stitch cut that bled everywhere. Really freaked my girlfriend out, and made for a fun sail back!
While a new boat's really nice, there's not necessarily anything wrong with an older, well-maintained ( or often rarely used) boat! Both my boats are over 30 years old, and after this winter's rework of the 16, seriously seaworthy. Hobies are a well built product! Mine probably are a little short of racing trim, though!
Can't speak to the impress the chicks thing anymore.... used to work when I was 18!

Dave
Author:  ronholm [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
If you can spring for a new 16... go for it.. There are a lots of little (and big) updates which have been made to the boat since the 80's and all that stuff adds up.. Not only to a 'faster' boat but one which is easier to handle, which also just makes it more fun. 3 As you have found 2003 (or whatever) boats are a bit thin on the ground, and you are going to have to fight racers for em... New solves a lot of problems.. and really they hold value pretty well and shouldn't really cost all to much more to own IMO... I LOVE my 2013...


Pitchpole'n is fun! the only time I really 'fear' it is when I have crew on the wire and I am sitting on the tramp as this puts me in a situation in which the shroud is in my path to the water.. It hurts a bit to smack that thing... The best pitch last year.. I had about 550lbs on the boat between three guys.. It was blowing 25+mph and we were broad reaching as 'hot'" as it would go.. I was skippering from the wire standing on the rudder casting with another guy just in front of me on the wire.. the third was on the tramp practically sitting on our feet.. I think I landed 30 ft in front of the boat.. It was awesome... :lol:




Another incident..... Listen for the laughing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV1aGyLLMw4
Author:  hobiesrock [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
x2 pitchpoles are a hoot! I have become a pro at launching myself and crew! :lol:
Author:  Matt15 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pitch Pole Question
Any chance to show off I will. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr_M5jue5rM @ exactly 2 minutes in I pitch pole hard and fast. Whilst I agree it's unwanted at times but it can be a lot of fun.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how the trapeze return system plays a part during a pitch pole. I've used two different setups during pitch poles and found the upgraded version a lot better in that both helmsman and crew are thrown more freely into the water. Where as prior to using the upgrade I found that the standard single bungee line which is commonly used doesn't allow you to be thrown as freely and instantly pulls you back towards the boat. Makes it easier to clip off your trapeze line too.
The upgrade is found on page 7 of the current 2014 SUMMER catalogue numbered 14709. It's also easy to DIY which I posted photos of on here.

HTH
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