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| Possible Problem with new sail http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54483 |
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| Author: | stupidpancakes [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Possible Problem with new sail |
Today i decided to unroll my new jib and trim my battens for the velcro tensioners. After tensioning and then removing the lowest batten i noticed that some stitching had broken. Is this something that i need to take to a loft and have fixed? Or can i dab something like superglue to the stitching to keep it from unraveling anymore? Attached below should be pictures of both side of the sail.  IMG_1326 by nicholasbostic, on Flickr IMG_1325 by nicholasbostic, on Flickr
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| Author: | srm [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
Super glue? No. What you can do is get a small spool of nylon sail thread and a hand needle an stitch it back together. I have done this on several sails. You want to carefully go back through the existing needle holes. Sometimes it helps to have a pair of needle nose pliers to pull the needle through. If the stitching is unravelling badly, I would contact the dealer and make a warranty claim. sm |
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| Author: | shakyrudder [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
Agree with SRM. Super glue will make a mess and not hold up long in the sun or water. Looks like a small repair job that would be very simple to complete at home. Hobie makes a repair kit that has everything you need. Hobie item #1665. You could get it from a hobie dealer I would imagine. The product is also available through Murrays.com for $18.99 http://www.murrays.com/07-1665.html Well worth the money. I have used it several times for small repairs. |
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| Author: | stupidpancakes [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
I will be sure pick that repair kit up on my next parts run. I'm attending at regatta this weekend hopefully it doesn't get significantly worse. |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
That's on a batten pocket, right? Looks to be toward the leach. Ignore the loose threads. The batten takes all the loads. If they bother you or get worse, run over them with a sewing machine if you have one-if not a few stitches with your awl will fix http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sewing-Awl-Kit-Hand-Stitch-Repair-Leather-Canvas-Sails-Tents-Shoes-Upholstery-/400572544328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d43fbf548 (everyone should have one of these). Simple fabric glue can also be applied to the broken threads. Check that you are not overtensioning your battens. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
Its possible that the tension tool cut them, so caution to keep the tool centered when using it. |
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| Author: | srm [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
tpdavis473 wrote: Ignore the loose threads. The batten takes all the loads. I disagree that "the batten takes all the loads". The stitches are there for a reason. They are what's holding your batten pocket/horizontal seam together. A few loose stitches are not cause for major concern, but they should be touched up. You don't need a sewing machine to fix this, just a basic needle and thread. Start about 3 or 4 "good" stitches before the damage. Carefully go back through the existing holes. This will ensure that you get the panel lined back up to its original position and it will make punching through the fabric much easier. Continue past the damage by about 3 or 4 stitches. I like to use a stitch technique where you go forward two stitches and back one. This doubles up the number of threads and puts a thread on each side of the sail. For a small area like you have, this should take about 20 minutes and will be stronger than new. sm |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
srm wrote: tpdavis473 wrote: Ignore the loose threads. The batten takes all the loads. I disagree that "the batten takes all the loads". The stitches are there for a reason. They are what's holding your batten pocket/horizontal seam together. A few loose stitches are not cause for major concern, but they should be touched up. sm Well, having built a bunch of sails with batten pockets...I can tell you with some pretty good authority that all those stitches are doing is holding the batten in the pocket. A few stitch breaks are absolutely no cause for any concern and if you touch them up, you are wasting your time...but hey!, it is your time. |
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| Author: | srm [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
Quote: ...I can tell you with some pretty good authority that all those stitches are doing is holding the batten in the pocket. A few stitch breaks are absolutely no cause for any concern and if you touch them up, you are wasting your time...but hey!, it is your time. Actually, you are incorrect. The batten pocket stitches on a Hobie sail do more than just hold the batten in the pocket. If you look closely at the sail, you will see that the batten pocket is actually formed by the overlap of the adjacent horizontal panels, it is not a separate pocket stitched onto the sail (if it were a separate pocket, then I would agree with you). The stitches in question are not simply holding the batten in the pocket, they are actually forming the seam between the adjacent horizontal sail panels. So the batten pocket stitches actually do hold the sail together - not only are they are structural, but they also influence the overall shape of the sail through the broad seaming between sail panels. I agree that a few missing stitches is not going to cause your sail to blow apart, but if you let them go unaddressed, they could continue to unravel and eventually it is very likely you could have a problem. So you can either take 20 minutes to repair a few inches of missing stitching or you can do nothing, let the stitches potentially continue to unravel, and risk one day having the sail come apart. Seems like a no-brainer to me. sm |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
Even if they are holding two pieces of sailcloth together. They see no loads because the batten is tensioning the cloth between the leach and luff (or end of the pocket and the leach if the batten is not full length). Seriously. I do know what I'm talking about. I know that a lot of people are pretty anal about sails and focus on minutia...Waste someone else' time. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
There is leech tension on the sails that could pull these panels apart. With no stitches... at some point, the load would only be carried by the folded leech seam. This part of the sail also beats against the mast and halyards during tacks, so would likely continue to open up if the stitches are not repaired. I would err on the side of repair rather than wait and possibly tear it at some point. |
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| Author: | Bacho [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
pancakes, I would not worry about it too much for this weekend. That would be a very fast and easy repair in my shop. |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
tpdavis473 wrote: Even if they are holding two pieces of sailcloth together. They see no loads because the batten is tensioning the cloth between the leach and luff (or end of the pocket and the leach if the batten is not full length). Seriously. I do know what I'm talking about. I know that a lot of people are pretty anal about sails and focus on minutia...Waste someone else' time. I'm, sorry, but don't know what you're talking about in this case - and your insistence on your position is just making you look foolish. We're talking about a Hobie 16 jib. ALL the battens are full length. The sail is constructed by overlapping the horizontal seams approximately 1" - which creates the batten pocket. It's an innovative design that eliminates the need for a separate piece of material and stitching to create a batten pocket. The same technique is used for the Hobie 16's mainsail and the 6-batten Hobie 14 sail (it's one of the reasons Hobie Cat changed from a 5-batten to a 6-batten pattern - it eliminated the separate batten pockets). The stitches are structural and under considerable shear forces at the leech of the sail, where the downward force of the sheet (to get good leech tension) is trying to pull the sail panels apart. There's no continuous leech tape on the hem to carry the load. The only thing holding the sail together is adhesive seam tape and the stitches. This is a very common wear area on the 16's jib, since it overlaps the mast and hits it with every tack and jibe. However, Nick's sail doesn't show any signs of that yet - which makes it even more imperative it be fixed soon. |
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| Author: | Skipshot [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
And if it makes you feel a little better, Mr. Pancakes, after doing the repair put some adhesive sail tape over the leech end of the batten pockets to protect the stitches from future abuse. |
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| Author: | tpdavis473 [ Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Possible Problem with new sail |
MBounds wrote: I'm, sorry, but don't know what you're talking about in this case - and your insistence on your position is just making you look foolish. We're talking about a Hobie 16 jib. ALL the battens are full length. The sail is constructed by overlapping the horizontal seams approximately 1" - which creates the batten pocket. It's an innovative design that eliminates the need for a separate piece of material and stitching to create a batten pocket. The same technique is used for the Hobie 16's mainsail and the 6-batten Hobie 14 sail (it's one of the reasons Hobie Cat changed from a 5-batten to a 6-batten pattern - it eliminated the separate batten pockets). The stitches are structural and under considerable shear forces at the leech of the sail, where the downward force of the sheet (to get good leech tension) is trying to pull the sail panels apart. There's no continuous leech tape on the hem to carry the load. The only thing holding the sail together is adhesive seam tape and the stitches. OK, Mr sail worrying person...did you actually look at the photos? There was ONE dropped or broken stitch. The sail WILL WEAR OUT before that stitch grows to be a problem. DO you know how a sewing machine works? Do you know what a lock stitch is? Worry about something that matters, not about a broken stitch here and there. Like I said before, many people are anal about their sails and construction when they SHOULD be worried about the sail shape instead. I have passed MANY MANY sailboat racers with perfect sails and no broken stitches with my home built sails that have many dropped and broken stitches...the time to worry about the sail construction is when it starts to separate--by that time you are likely to need a new sail. Truthfully, I can't believe I'm wasting my time even posting this, it is so absurd. |
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