Hobie Forums :: View topic - A couple high wind sailing questions

Some water is relative.

Pitchpoling is usually caused by two factors - poor trim and being overpowered.
TRIM
How much does the crew weigh?
Were you trapped out?
Were you at the centre of the H16, towards the rear, or hanging off the rear hull?
How far out was the traveler?
OVER-POWERED
Again, how far out was the traveler?
What was the state of the waves?
Not only the height of the waves but the 'fetch' (Distance between each wave.) Typically, in inland waterways, the fetch does not allow for smooth sailing, and often causes pitchpoling, don't ask how I know.

Very often, in a puff, the hull will lift, and the H16 will want to round up, which places the leeward hull in a very vulnerable position, ready to pitchpole. So we teach our students to:
1. Traveler out
2. Head off a touch (and there is much debate on this one,)
3. Sheet out
4. shift the weight to the rear
5. and get ready to swim.

Contact me offline at lunnjohn at magma dot ca if you want more, and check us out at www.kanatasailingclub.com

Author:	Triggs [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	A couple high wind sailing questions
Had the Hobie 16 out on Sunday in some fairly high winds. 1. It really wanted to pitch pole when I was flying a hull. I understand it is probably in my rigging. Will tilting the mast back help? 2. Had some water in my port hull. How much is too much?

Author:	John Lunn [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:02 am ]
Post subject:	High wind sailing
Some water is relative. Two to four cups is nothing. A gallon means you have been having fun. More than four litres means you need to do some maintenance. In Ottawa, we had steady Northerlies, averaging 12 knots with some gusts up to 25 knots. I spent the morning painting the ceiling of the Clubhouse and we sailed in the afternoon at around 10 kts. Pitchpoling is usually caused by two factors - poor trim and being overpowered. TRIM How much does the crew weigh? Were you trapped out? Were you at the centre of the H16, towards the rear, or hanging off the rear hull? How far out was the traveler? OVER-POWERED Again, how far out was the traveler? What was the state of the waves? Not only the height of the waves but the 'fetch' (Distance between each wave.) Typically, in inland waterways, the fetch does not allow for smooth sailing, and often causes pitchpoling, don't ask how I know. Very often, in a puff, the hull will lift, and the H16 will want to round up, which places the leeward hull in a very vulnerable position, ready to pitchpole. So we teach our students to: 1. Traveler out 2. Head off a touch (and there is much debate on this one,) 3. Sheet out 4. shift the weight to the rear 5. and get ready to swim. Contact me offline at lunnjohn at magma dot ca if you want more, and check us out at www.kanatasailingclub.com

Author:	Barren [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:18 am ]
Post subject:
Related question: What if I have about a gallon in the port after 2 hours out... and none in the starboard? Equal time on both sides sailing... not much flying to speak of.

Author:	John Lunn [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Water in the hulls
Oh dear, I wuz hoping you wouldn't ask. Does sound like you'll need to do some work. Make every effort to drain the boat well when you're done. Start with the plug, does it seal? Is the rubber/silicone washer still intact? Does the drain housing need to be removed, recaulked and re-seated? How are the gudgeons? Need re-sealing? Depending on the age of the H16, there may be some leakage around the pylons. Check the repair section of the Forum. If you cannot see any sign of leaks from damaged areas, then beach the boat, undo the plugs, take a shop vac (reset to blowing mode) and a spray bottle with a soap and water mixture, and perform the bubble test. Lots on the Forum on this one. Be careful not to use too much shop vac pressure as this can blow seals. I found my H18 leaks in under 6 minutes - port holes needed recaulking, small seam leak in the daggerboard well, as well as recaulking a shroud anchor plate. If you send me your email address, I can send you pix of my bubbles. Have not yet learned how to post pix on the Forum.

Author:	Triggs [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: High wind sailing
John Lunn C A wrote: Some water is relative. Pitchpoling is usually caused by two factors - poor trim and being overpowered. TRIM How much does the crew weigh? Were you trapped out? Were you at the centre of the H16, towards the rear, or hanging off the rear hull? How far out was the traveler? OVER-POWERED Again, how far out was the traveler? What was the state of the waves? Not only the height of the waves but the 'fetch' (Distance between each wave.) Typically, in inland waterways, the fetch does not allow for smooth sailing, and often causes pitchpoling, don't ask how I know. Very often, in a puff, the hull will lift, and the H16 will want to round up, which places the leeward hull in a very vulnerable position, ready to pitchpole. So we teach our students to: 1. Traveler out 2. Head off a touch (and there is much debate on this one,) 3. Sheet out 4. shift the weight to the rear 5. and get ready to swim. Contact me offline at lunnjohn at magma dot ca if you want more, and check us out at www.kanatasailingclub.com Thanks for the info. I was able to divert the pitch pole (once it pitch poled but flattened out without capsizing). It was in an inland lake. As soon as the hull started to raise I got my crew to move back and that seemed to do the trick but I wasn't sure if it should be as much of a threat as it was.

Hobie Forums http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/

A couple high wind sailing questions http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7043	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Triggs [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:
One other quick question. Rolling tacks on a 16. I've read it could be done and I tried it (again in high winds) but nearly capsized again. Can Rolling tacks be done successfully and is it any quicker than a standard tack on a H16?

Author:	fastcat [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:
If you are having that much leakage and there is no evident damage, then there are most likely two potential problems. 1) delamination between the hull and upper deck allowing water in that is hard to spot (fixed with a syringe, needle and fiberglass resin) or 2) water entrance is at the foam plugs in the pylons thst have become unsealed (this would be my best guess). To fix, remove the 2 bolts holding on the port hull to the tramp frame (detention the tramp first). Slip the hull off the tramp frame, reseal foam plugs with expanding foam or silicone. NOTE: there should be a breather tube in the forward foam plug to equalize pressure. Good luck

Author:	MBounds [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Can Rolling tacks be done successfully and is it any quicker than a standard tack on a H16? Yes, but it's not like roll-tacking a Laser. It's faster than a "standard" tack, but still comparatively slow. The principle is to have the boat pivot on the aft windward corner. As you turn into the tack, the driver is kneeling on the aft corner of the trampoline; the crew is right next to them. When the jib backwinds, it helps lift the opposite corner of the boat, pivoting it around. Just when you think you're about to lose it, the driver eases the main about 2 ft, the crew brings the jib across, they both scramble to the new high side and start sheeting in on the new tack. In heavy air, there's a very fine line between roll tacking and capsizing backwards. It takes a lot of coordination between the driver and crew. Triggs, you missed it at Port Burwell - we had 10 - 15 kts on yesterday, not a cloud in the sky and 2 ft waves on Lake Erie. John made awesome fajitas: We drank lots of Margaritas and played silly games: Another awesome Regata de Gatos in Port Burwell, Ontario!

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/