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Right of way question
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7585		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Roy [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Right of way question
Alright, I know that generally sail has right of way of power but this weekend I had an incident with a small (16') runabout pulling his kids in one of those tube things, anyway he cut across my bow and ended up getting the tow rope tangled in my rudders, he came around swearing at me that I had to stay out of his way. Who really has the right of way here?
Author:  gree2056 [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, technically you had the right of way. But in my opinion both of you were in the wrong. I deal with alot of powerboats on the small lake that I sail on and sadly getting cut off is just one of the problems. But if both parties try hard to avoid problmes usually it isn't bad.

So he had no right to cuss you out but also , you should have turned to avoid him.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
A powerboat pulling a ski-er/tuber has right of way over a non-powered boat.
Author:  NCSUtrey [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  right of way
Right of way goes to the least maneuverable boat, or to a working boat. Shrimp boats always have right of way (trust me). In the case with the tuber, assuming there was any wind, you should stay away. Were there no wind, he would have been much more maneuverable than you.

Get smart and carry a paintball gun...
Author:  John Lunn [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Right of Way
The general rule is that power gives way to sail.
However, there are a million exceptions, so the 'safe' rule is 'stay out of their way, and keep a sharp lookout.' Examples are working boats, like shrimpers, or 'lakers' in the narrow channels of the St Lawrence Seaway. They have limited manoevrebility, and EVERYONE gives them the right of way.

My biggest hazard is small kids swimming at our beach. When I return to the Club beach, how do we ask the kids to look up and be aware? For some years now, I have attached a Fox Whistle to my hiking harness, and a couple of sharp TOOTS gets everyone's attention.

Anyone have other suggestions? Love the paintball idea.
Author:  Hobie Nick [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
I would think that a boat traveling at 25-30 mph that is not much larger than a Hobie would have to give way to a sailboat. It's not like the Hobie just appeared out of nowhere. And the powerboat driver should have noticed the 200+ sqft of sail ahead of him long before there was an issue.

Since the powerboat is not a working boat, has more maneuverability (even when pulling a tube), and should have been paying attention to where he is going I would say he is in the wrong. I am trying the think of some way to agree with the powerboat and I can't.
Author:  Adrio [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
A quick look at the rules
http://www.stormy.ca/marine/colregs/rule18.htm
says the sail has the right of way over power unless the power vessel is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre. I think the towing of a skier of tube does not retrict the ability to manoeuvre. I think if it were a tug towing a barge then the sail boat becomes the stand off vessel and must give way. Also note the crossing chanel exception but that does not seem to be the case in the example.

But most of all remember there is a rule that says if the vessel that should give way does not give way the stand on vessel can at the time it becomes evident the other vessel is not going to give way shall manoeuver to avoid collision. I like to summarize this rule as "there is no point being dead right in the eyes of the coroner"
Author:  Skipshot [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Safe boating is everyone's primary responsibility, and insisting on the right of way to someone's peril is irresponsible. In general, boats under way should stay 100 feet from each other. I would agree that a power boat towing someone would have right of way over a sailboat, but for the power boat operator to position his skiers in front of any on-coming cross traffic is irresponsible. However, you, too should be able to stop your sailboat if it meant protecting life and property, even if the other guy is being a jerk.

But something is missing from your account. What were the winds like? In general, when boats are towing people the wind is light, which means a sailboat is moving slowly, and you would have enough time to not run over the tow rope.
Author:  DVL [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Non Powered has right of way over most but not all. Boats trolling for fish, picking up pots, ect would have right of way. I don't know about boats pulling skiiers or tubers.

I do know that I have turned away from Great Lakes Freighters and the Car Ferrys that cross Lake MI. In general, I'll try to slightly modify my course to avoid other boats whenever possible.
Author:  cannon_fodder [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm new to sailing my Hobie, but have been around boats long enough to know:

1) Power generally gives way to sail.
2) Commercial ("working boats") trump rule 1
3) Boats with restricted maneuverability trump rule 2 (engines out, heavy barge load > ferry, etc.)

Also
4) When pulling a skier, the "captains" main duty is to watch traffic for the safety of the skier. This includes his course, as well as being wary of other vessels (ie. if someone is following behind your skier do something to stop that). He picks the course, the other person in the boat watches the towed person (that's why you need 3 to ski).

I would say that other than while preparing to tow a skier OR when maneuvering to pick up a skier (skier, tuber, whatever) the power boat is more maneuverable than the sail boat. Even when towing a skier the boat has great turning ability and can cut engines. The ability to instantly apply maximum power in any direction as well as the ability to brake (reverse) means the power boat has a huge advantage.

Even ignoring those rules, what kid of idiot drags his tow line across the bow of another boat? I would have tried to avoid running over the line, but if a power boat insists on going in front of my Hobie there really isnt that much I can do to stop him. Seeing how he is faster and more maneuverable...
Author:  Roy [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
There was very light winds that day (this last Sunday to be exact) 5-10 mph, I could not have gotten out of his way if I tried (which I did try by the way)
Author:  wannahobie [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have been on both sides of this type of situation. When pulling a person on a towable or on skiis, a spotter is required, however, the boat operator still has his/her work cut out for them. They WILL BE distracted by not only the course ahead, but the couse of his towed human projectiles, the spotter's reactions, waves (not the Hobie kind :wink: ), and a number of other factors a non-towing powerboat operator need not consider, or at least to the same degree. And an evasive manouever by the pulling boat is not neccesarilly going to be followed by the object in tow. Rope swing, momemtum, etc, play a big factor.

I have pulled waterskiers, tubers, and let me tell you, it can be quite nerveracking. Especially if there other powerboats. Now, the non-powered craft are pretty to avoid. I alter my course slowly and simply stay WAY clear of kayaks, canoes, sailboats, and the like.

While sailing I typically do not end up bieng in the way, as the powerboats I encounter seem to steer way clear of me, I try to keep my actions predictable. There have been a couple of times I changed my couse on my Wave as a courtesy, to allow a the boat w/ skiier in tow to stay on their apparent course and destination.

The lake on which I do most of my boating is fairly small, and the other boaters seem pretty aware of each other, and simply stay well away from each other. Of course, this may not be the case on more crowded water bodies, so as many others here have pointed out, never assume another craft is going to follow ROTR, especially if they are towing. (Again, read DISTRACTED).

Personally, I agree that the powerboater was irresponble, pointing his boat w/ tube in tow into the path of your slower sailboat. It was not like he could not predict where you were headed. I think you were in the right, but always remember that a fair amount of boaters out there are cluless re the ROTR. Esp the PWC kind :x . Don't get me started on that one :wink:

Just my $0.02
Author:  ncmbm [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a typical reckless power boater to me. Its interesting that none of them seem to understand the rules but feel they are always right! I've gone round and round with the operators of para-sail boats. They think its cool to float their paying customers over my mast. I haven't been hit by the cable yet, but very close several times. The attitude is I'm in their water and they can do whatever they like. If a cable does ever touch my boat the coast guard will be called first, police second, insurance agent third.
Author:  CBFryman [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Depending on sail position and angle of attack you could have had your view of him restricted by the sail so that you did not see him up until he was right there. This is one of the reasons that sail trumps other non-powered boats. He should have seen the sail from over half a mile away. Towing a skier doesn’t retract the ability to change course quickly, it just may upset the skier. A tuber is even less of a worry because for the most part they stay inside the wake path unless you are cracking the whip. Before you crack the whip you should always be wary of boats around you.

He was in the wrong.

However, always try to avoid boats under power. Don’t expect them to see your 14' "Toy" as a boat. The average captain of a ski boat doesn’t have the proper boating mentality. They often don't know that when sailing you not only have to worry about direction but also 2 or more lines and the wind.
Author:  Steve L [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 
What about sail vs. sail? Windsurfer or another cat?

We have alot of windsurfers at the local lake, trying to keep each of them in sight makes for a fascinating day to say the least.


Just watch out and move out!
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