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Hulls Discoloring 2002/2003
http://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9004		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dan P. [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Hulls Discoloring 2002/2003
STAINED H17 GETS PROFESSIONALLY BUFFED TO PERFECTION THEN STAINS RETURN IN A WEEK! (Read on)

I have a white 2003 H17. Nearly two years ago it began to slowly turn brownish, like badly stained teeth; more so in areas which are immersed in water during sailing, less on the decks.

Usage: SF bay saltwater, one afternoon a week, 2 hours, hose thoroughly with fresh water, dry-store, covered on a trailer.

I thought the staining was because I had not waxed it frequently, so I didn't worry about it and kept putting off a clean-up. Around three weeks ago, boat damage was the excuse I needed to take it to a respected gel coat expert to have it repaired and to have the staining removed. He buffed it with compound and waxed it. It looked like new - super white!

Sailed it once, then cleaned it a little better than usual, using a wash cloth.

Sailed it again, and while out on the wire I noticed that large areas were turning brown again!!! What the...

I spoke to others who boat in the same area I do, most have older boats and none have experienced anything like this. Their theories mostly revolve around this being a bad batch of gel coat at Hobie during 02/03, Another more cynical guy suggested my gel coat expert took a short-cut and used a color restoring wax that has washed off. I'm not sure what color restoring wax does, but my expert really does not strike me as the type to do that - he is as baffled as everyone else, including the local Hobie dealer.

So my questions for the forum are; Has anyone had a similar problem (especially in the 02/03)? Does anyone have any idea what this is or suggestions on how to fix it without completely re-finishing, or waxing my boat once a week?

Thanks,

Dan Peake
2003 H17 SE
Campbell, CA
Author:  wannahobie [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Boy, that is weird. Do you keep it under cover during non-use? I am suspecting it could be environmental fall out? Or some kind of algea/fungi?

It may be worth cleaning w/ some kind of mild bleach solution. Then of course a follow up w/ some teflon based marine wax.

Otherwise, I wonder if that gel coat is slightly porous, so that it may trap dirt or whatever beyond all but an aggressive compounding and polishing? Most wax by nature dries to a white appearence of course, and as it washes away from weather and use it reveals the contaminents in the pores, if that pourous theory holds to be true.

If nothing else works, using a cleaner wax should bring it back to normal now that the hulls were recently buffed. At least temporarily.
Author:  xanderwess [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Does the boat smoke or drink lots of coffee?
I would try barkeepers friend. We get some muck on our boats from some of the lakes once in a while, kinda turns the boat red believe it or not, and that stuff works great.
cw
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hulls Discoloring 2002/2003
Dan P. wrote:
Another more cynical guy suggested my gel coat expert took a short-cut and used a color restoring wax that has washed off. I'm not sure what color restoring wax does


Team Pegasus doesn't use a guy that takes shortcuts, so you can rule that one out. Same guy that did your boat works on this:

Image
Author:  Roger [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:15 am ]
Post subject: 
We get the brown hull grunge after sailing on some of the lakes here in So Cal. Muriatic (pool) acid seems to be very effective in removing it - just wipe it on, wait a few minutes and rinse it off (no scrubbing necessary). You can buy it at any pool supply store, or even some supermarkets carry it.

Be aware that it's really nasty stuff - you want to wear eye protection, some serious rubber gloves and work outdoors. Even then, you have to watch out for the fumes.

I always thought that waxing the hull helped to prevent this, but based on your experience, maybe not.

Roger
Author:  xanderwess [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:33 am ]
Post subject: 
I am not positive, but I think that is the same ingredient as in Barkeepers Friend too. Walmart, $.99 can. You gotta scrub a little bit though.
Author:  J_Eaton [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:29 am ]
Post subject: 
xanderwess wrote:
I am not positive, but I think that is the same ingredient as in Barkeepers Friend too. Walmart, $.99 can. You gotta scrub a little bit though.
I'm no chemist so can't tell you the difference, but I do remember the active ingredient in the Bar Keeper's friend is oxalic acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
This stuff works wonders. It is harsh on the lungs though, (use outdoors). It comes in a powder. I mix about a 1/4 cup with 2 1/2 gallons of water in a 5 gallon bucket. I apply it with a sponge then just rinse it off.

Image


Does anyone know what causes these stains? Or why acid removes them so easily? It does seem that a boat that isn't waxed up seems to get the stain more quickly, but certain waxes don't deter the brown from returning. On my first H16 I remeber dropping my boat in the water it was white. After one full day of sailing it looked like poop again. I've been having good luck with Meguires Cleaner Wax in a paste. What makes it a "cleaner wax" is that it has some abrasive in it to grind away and polish the surface. It's not like a detergent or anything.

Image

xanderwess will vouch for me. I had a 83' H14 that looked fricken brand new. At least the hulls did. With a Milwaukee 9" grinder with a 3M buffing head I first used a medium grit compound, then a fine grit compound using wool bonnets. Then I finished it off with this cleaner wax using the same grinder but with the foam pad. The results were phenomenal.
Author:  xanderwess [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Yea, you're right about that. It is oxylaic acid. The Barkeepers friend works pretty good though and you don't need a HAZMAT suit to put it on. You DO need to scrub a little though.

The Iron Out smells kinda funky when mixed with warm water (we need to use it often in our water system at home) but I have heard it works well also.

Karl's 14 was looking really nice too. Too bad he sold it.
Author:  MBounds [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:46 am ]
Post subject: 
The brown stains are caused by tannins in the water.

Gel coat is porous and tannins seem to have an affinity for it.

Oxalic acid is a bleach that works particularly well on the tannin stains.

The only way to prevent the stains is to use several coats of wax on the boat, especially after it's been buffed or sanded.
Author:  Skipshot [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeez, Matt B., what DON'T you know about Hobie Cats?
Author:  xanderwess [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I usually refer to him as "Master Yoda" Not only is he short and green, but he's really really smart too......
Author:  mmiller [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Matt's an expert for sure!

We see this in waters that are very dirty. Certainly SF bay is full of yuck. Lots of industry and river water carrying stuff down from the mountains.

Nothing about gelcoat from a certain year is to blame.
Author:  Karl Brogger [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
xanderwess wrote:
Too bad he sold it.


If I had a tumour the size of a watermelon on my neck removed the same day I sold my 14 I would have been happier that the 14 was gone than the tumour. I can't say what it is but me and that boat just don't get along.

Actually I know why I didn't get along with it. It actually takes some skill to sail one really well. I just don't have that.
Author:  xanderwess [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh, GROSS!! You'd rather have a Goiter than a 14. Yuck.
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