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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:55 pm 
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Hi,

Keen to purchase my first kayak at 54yo 6ft tall 90kgs and I have 4 applications (in order) and not sure if either an AI or a PA would suit all of them.
1/ Elevated lake fly-fishing in Tasmania (like Little Pine Lagoon or Penstock)
2/ Coastal adventure overnight touring (like Macquarie Harbour or Freycinet Peninsular)
3/ Coastal fishing and estuaries (like Bridport or Ansons Bay)
4/ Adventure overnight freshwater touring (like Lake Pedder)
5/ Sailing for fun (obviously just the AI for that)

I don't usually take a lot of fishing gear in current boat but for overnight touring need plenty of storage. Have a ladder rack on flat tray ute for transport or could modify box trailer and tow or could buy a dedicated trailer.

So some questions that spring to mind:-
1/ Using the AI stripped down to just a kayak is it as capable and stable for fly-fishing as say a PA14?
2/ Will say a PA14 cope with extended trips and keep up with my other friends 5m+ touring kayaks in both speed and safety both for inland and coastal (and indeed would an AI as just a kayak be like a 5m+ touring kayak)?
3/ Is the AI nimble enough to manoeuvre in rivers or chase freshwater lake fish?
4/ All the You Tube videos seem to show the AI taking a lot of water over the bow is there any difference to the PA for the times I would prefer to stay dry like on very cold lakes?

Final thought:-
If you think that I would be better off with two kayaks as one can't do my list (which is an option as my wife would be keen on some trips) would it be best for a PA12 and an AI to have the versatility and then how safe is a PA12 for coastal applications or larger lakes for when my wife comes?

Cheers & thanks,
Andrew


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I see nobody has responded here, I will try to give it a shot.
First off we don't fish at all besides spear fishing which doesn't really count, we are divers and snorklers mostly. We live in sw florida and the keys where the areas are vast and the distances to get anywhere beside shallow bare sand can be extreme. As an axample from where we typically launch to where we typically hang out is around 7 miles, and some days we cover 50-60 miles mostly off shore in salt water, we only ocassionally do fresh water.
Our TI is modified specifically for our area and typical conditions.

I strongly suggest you trial a PA, and judge for yourself if you think you will be able to keep pace with your buddys and there 5m sea kayaks over distance, I'm not saying what the outcome will be, you need to discover this for yourself.

We go offshore a lot and I have never seen a PA more than 1/2 mile from shore, and never in rough seas, again you need to find this out yourself and speak with experienced PA owners.
I don't know much about the AI (we have never owned one), as my wife and I gave up on singles a long time ago andconly use tandem kayaks anymore,(our preference).
I'm not sure an AI can hold it's own against experienced sea kayakers, (I simply don't know). But I have been out with experienced sea kayakers with our TI in kayak mode solo, and held my own fairly well (kayak length and width means everything). Typically an efficient kayak has a minimum 8 to 1 or greater length to width ratio,(just FYI).
I strongly suggest you also trial an AI or TI before buying anything, you may not like it.
We own a TI because it is our only boat anymore and it's our family boat and we often need to haul up to 4 people on ours, and often need to carry hundreds of lbs of diving gear off shore so we need the weight capacity.
I can't be of much help here because our needs are so different. My only suggestion is for you to try these boats out, and maybe talk to owners with similar needs and desires to you.
Hope this helps
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Location: Blacklick, Ohio
I'll second what fusioneng had stated. Either one will probably work, it just depends on what you find works for you. For extended touring, I would recommend an AI or TI over the PA. Being able to sail (more effectively than the PA) means that you can cover more ground. Like fusioneng I would recommend finding a local hobie dealer and doing some demos to find out what works best for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:48 am 
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Location: South Florida
Your wife is going to want to go out with you. The Tandem is the only way to go.

Keith

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:02 pm
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thx guys for the feedback - getting close to the 2017 models being in stock here in Tasmania - will hopefully be able to try them.
Cheers, Andrew


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:56 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
A TI is seriously heavy, I would consider a dedicated trailer (Hobie recommends 67 inches between supports). Although you could fit this on a 6x4 there would be a fair bit of overhang front and back.

If you go the roof top option consider how to get 100kgs of boat on the roof in a safe manner by yourself. It is possible but needs a bit of thought.

The bonus of an AI or TI is heaps of storage and cargo capacity for overnights. You tend to stay more dry on the 2015 on models. The seat sits higher out of the hull. The hull is a slightly different shape, not sure if this makes it more or less likely for getting wet.

I can't comment on the pro angler.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:26 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I agree the tandem is heavy. After resisting for years, I purchased a new 2014 in late 2015. I chose the '14 over a new 2015 because it weighs less and has side handles. I have vowed to never sail the tandem solo. I did the other day, but only because I had a friend, Joe Slama, who sailed his "goose", and helped load mine onto my trailer.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:32 pm 
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The current AI in single hull mode is not as stable or as maneuverable as the older models, it is also heavier. I would suggest few would be comfortable using it this way. Hence the split between the AI and revo 16 hull designs, rather than one doing both.

Island sailing is wet full stop. Given you are in Tassie you are best investigating in some good drysuit gear otherwise cold wet conditions are going to limit you whichever you get.

For offshore you can't go past having a yak with full amas if only as a safety issue.

AI can be used polynesian style (just one outrigger) if required.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
I'm more than happy to sail my Tandem solo but I have a trailer and a beach dolly.
I have also used a roof loader for roof topping onto my Prado but the height of the vehicle (+6 ft 8) and my lack of height (5 ft 8) makes it a long drawn out exercise to load and unload the boat this way.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:38 am 
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Location: Orlando!
I currently have both models, a 2007 AI and a 2017 PA14. I know there are significant differences in the current AI hull and outriggers that probably affect my observations but here goes:

PA: Very stable, especially with skeg deployed. Surprisingly responsive to pedaling considering squat shape. It can sail, though doesn't point well. Lots of deck space. More storage and stowage (which is also more readily accessible.) If you have trampolines then obviously more storage with the AI. A broad, flat deck, and high seat and deck are the biggest advantages.

AI hull only: Moderate storage/ stowage. Surprisingly stable, even moreso with skeg deployed. Low profile means Low wind resistance. No deck space to speak of. Sleek hull. Has to be far away the fastest and easiest pedalling of all the mirage kayaks.

AI one outrigger and tramp: Lots more storage. Pedaling is a greater effort with gear on the tramp than a loaded PA. You can deploy the sail just be ready to quickly depower if your tack is on the same side as your outrigger unless you're hiked out.

Fully rigged AI: Requires more pedaling effort than PA with gear on tramps, but that's what the sail's for, right? Not the best at pointing, either.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:20 pm 
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I bought a PA14 the first year they were out - 2010 I think. Used the heck out of it for two years. Great boat. Really a great boat. Sort of like a mini bass boat. Terrific.

Then I bought a Tandem Island in 2012. The PA has not been in the water since. Enough said.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:52 am 
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Andrew23 wrote:
Hi,

So some questions that spring to mind:-
1/ Using the AI stripped down to just a kayak is it as capable and stable for fly-fishing as say a PA14?
2/ Will say a PA14 cope with extended trips and keep up with my other friends 5m+ touring kayaks in both speed and safety both for inland and coastal (and indeed would an AI as just a kayak be like a 5m+ touring kayak)?
3/ Is the AI nimble enough to manoeuvre in rivers or chase freshwater lake fish?
4/ All the You Tube videos seem to show the AI taking a lot of water over the bow is there any difference to the PA for the times I would prefer to stay dry like on very cold lakes?

Final thought:-
If you think that I would be better off with two kayaks as one can't do my list (which is an option as my wife would be keen on some trips) would it be best for a PA12 and an AI to have the versatility and then how safe is a PA12 for coastal applications or larger lakes for when my wife comes?

Cheers & thanks,
Andrew


Hi Andrew I will give you ,y opinion on your 4 questions

1/ Using the AI stripped down to just a kayak is it as capable and stable for fly-fishing as say a PA14? no not even close

2/ Will say a PA14 cope with extended trips and keep up with my other friends 5m+ touring kayaks in both speed and safety both for inland and coastal (and indeed would an AI as just a kayak be like a 5m+ touring kayak)? for Speed -nope- the PA 14 and 12 for that matter are wide and heavy- you will struggle to keep up with them. For safety- yes

3/ Is the AI nimble enough to manoeuvre in rivers or chase freshwater lake fish? not even close- thank God Hobie has reverse now- The AI is still a bear to manuver but reverse does help.

4/ All the You Tube videos seem to show the AI taking a lot of water over the bow is there any difference to the PA for the times I would prefer to stay dry like on very cold lakes? only time I take a lot of water over the bow is if i am sailing in wind and chop

Final thought:-
If you think that I would be better off with two kayaks as one can't do my list (which is an option as my wife would be keen on some trips) would it be best for a PA12 and an AI to have the versatility and then how safe is a PA12 for coastal applications or larger lakes for when my wife comes? The PA 12 is a very capable boat in any water and Yes it sounds like 2 kayak would suit your needs better than one do it all kayak.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:13 pm 
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I'm considering a hybrid of both... the best of both platforms if you will... for any given need and very likely to also meet changing needs.

For instance;
I love the drier ride of the PA.
Love the stability of the PA.
Also love the larger sail of the island (AI or TI).
Love the ability to haul more gear on trampolines.

So why not combine ALL of the best aspects together, when it makes sense to do so;
Mount the Akas and Amas OR only half of same, on the PA (individual or tandem).

There you go with the best of all aspects....

Recently finishing up final tweaks on a motor mount for a 2.5 HP 4 cycle motor...

Chuck

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:04 am
Posts: 19
Have you considered a outback with a sail kit?

We have a group of mates who take yaks on multi day trips carrying all camping gear etc on the yaks. Group consists of revo11,13,16 and outback.

Outback sits higher in water and is a quite a dry ride. With a set of turbo find we were suprised how well it kept out with the Revo 13s.

We don't pack light and outback has plenty of storage. Does not have the storage of a pa obviously.

Sail kit would add a little amount of speed to help keep up. Not sure how much it would compramise fishing setup though.

Outbacks fit the rectangle hath too for the tackle.. And now there is the 2019 model to consider.

Pa would be too hard work to try to keep up with sea kayaks and from videos I have seen the AI is a pretty wet ride as mentioned above


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