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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:29 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
But we are selling more boats than ever. Something like the top 3 and 7 out of the top 10 kayaks sold are Hobie, so we are on the right track.


This is the attitude that kills me. "Hey, we are selling lots of kayaks, so we must be perfect." There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

First, I never heard of a business that didn't want more sales. Especially if a few minor changes in your product could broaden the appeal and bring in more buyers.

Second, every company should have some kind of integrity and remember their roots. I think Hobie Alter would be saddened that his products are fast becoming inappropriate for surf and ocean use and even more so that his staff doesn't care. I mean, he started this business selling surfboards and surf-launched catamarans. What a shame. Good thing he's not around to see it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
There is no point in arguing here... You are wrong about us not innovating, caring about the product and our consumers and I can tell you that Hobie Alter was VERY proud of what this company did (and continues to do) for his legacy. He was out of the business decades ago.

What we have here is a VERY sore attitude from Kross57 and I'm about done with it.

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Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:15 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
There is no point in arguing here... You are wrong about us not innovating, caring about the product and our consumers and I can tell you that Hobie Alter was VERY proud of what this company did (and continues to do) for his legacy. He was out of the business decades ago.

What we have here is a VERY sore attitude from Kross57 and I'm about done with it.


I'm not happy with Hobie either MM. I don't feel like spending my own time and money to remedy a kayak to an acceptable standard on the big salt water only to hear from you that there isn't enough profit to make a second seat option to the consumer.

Hey I respect Hobie. I'm only using your product because there isn't another product out there like the Revo 13 with a drive that can take the salt water. I'll just have to spend my money fixing the seat how I like it. Fix it until something better comes along. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
I don't feel like spending my own time and money to remedy a kayak to an acceptable standard on the big salt water only to hear from you that there isn't enough profit to make a second seat option to the consumer.


?

I said:

Quote:
We have not seen that as a viable option we could build and sell.


It has to do with the interest in a modification as suggested. We do not see any (scant at best) interest in removing the CT seat to use an old school foam seat.

In fact... the VAST majority of requests have been to find a way to add the CT seat to an older model.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 58
mmiller wrote:
Quote:
I don't feel like spending my own time and money to remedy a kayak to an acceptable standard on the big salt water only to hear from you that there isn't enough profit to make a second seat option to the consumer.


?

I said:

Quote:
We have not seen that as a viable option we could build and sell.


It has to do with the interest in a modification as suggested. We do not see any (scant at best) interest in removing the CT seat to use an old school foam seat.

In fact... the VAST majority of requests have been to find a way to add the CT seat to an older model.


Good give the majority what they want. We will survive. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Posts: 35
mmiller wrote:
There is no point in arguing here... You are wrong about us not innovating, caring about the product and our consumers and I can tell you that Hobie Alter was VERY proud of what this company did (and continues to do) for his legacy. He was out of the business decades ago.

What we have here is a VERY sore attitude from Kross57 and I'm about done with it.


Who is arguing? I still don't get this. You care about your customers. OK, great. Am I not a customer? Isn't riddler a customer? Do you think we're the only ones to have these issues? Of course not. Why do you ignore anything that is less than complimentary or write it off as "attitude"? How is telling you that you have made the Hobie kayaks bad for certain applications "sore"? It's only the truth.

I am certainly no engineer, but even I can see that this is not a problem that's difficult to fix. Make the seat back detachable with a hard or soft back available. Easy as pie. Get rid of the kickstand and make the seat so the legs can be removed completely or lowered farther. Another easy fix. At least give the concept some thought. But trying to label everyone who has concerns as a crank is not helping.

Personally, when I was running a company, I encouraged new and novel ideas. I wanted feedback. This is where innovation comes from. Even if it's not the majority view, that doesn't mean it won't create value or shouldn't be attempted.

I note that Hobie recently improved the seal on the PA front hatch. Why? Because it leaked like crazy. It was a problem that needed to be fixed. So is the Vantage seat. So are the leaky hatches on other kayaks. So is the handling of some models without the rudder. So is the soft plastic. Ignoring these problems doesn't make them go away. Hobie has a great opportunity in this forum to discuss such things with customers. But if you only accept compliments, its a waste.

You have to realize you are creating a hostile environment for people that have problems. No wonder you never hear from them. Who wants the abuse?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 58
So far the Pad has worked out great. My 2018 Revo is more stable now especially in following seas. If other folks are having issues with 2015 Revo and new stability you take out the factory seat and replace with a standard kayak seat and 2" memory foam pad. The pad will compress and leave you about 3/4" from the deck. If you need the drain it will still work. So far I don't have any issues.

Imagepic upload


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2903
Location: Escondido
the riddler wrote:
So far the Pad has worked out great.
Riddler, this looks like an excellent solution for those who prefer the older seat style in a 2015 and newer hull. There are a few of us who like the older seats as well. It looks like you're using a Hobie seat -- is this a Hobie Paddle seat with 4 straps? If not, how did you get the seat anchored? Do you have any specifics on the memory foam product? Is there a problem with moisture accumulation / mold? This would make a great How-To. Thanks for sharing! 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:02 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
the riddler wrote:
So far the Pad has worked out great.
Riddler, this looks like an excellent solution for those who prefer the older seat style in a 2015 and newer hull. There are a few of us who like the older seats as well. It looks like you're using a Hobie seat -- is this a Hobie Paddle seat with 4 straps? If not, how did you get the seat anchored? Do you have any specifics on the memory foam product? Is there a problem with moisture accumulation / mold? This would make a great How-To. Thanks for sharing! 8)




Hello. RR. Thank you for your posts over the years. Helped me a lot!


The seat I am using is the “Seals” seat. Comes with 4 attachment points with brass swivels. I believe any standard kayak seat with 4 attachment points will work. I added 4 pad eyes to accommodate the brass swivels. That was the easy part.

The problem was finding a pad. I first started with mini cell foam 2” and a grinder with light disc to shape the seat. I did a nice shape. The problem was after 2 hours the mini cell became uncomfortable. This may be subjective for certain people. This youtube video demonstrates how you shape the foam.

https://youtu.be/5b6x5M6Z-QM


Next up I hit up Google and started searching for foam pads. I found one on Amazon. Memory foam and the cover over the foam will absorb water and become somewhat sponge like but so far I haven't had a need to change it. I did use a small piece of mini-cell to fill the bowl where the drain well is at. Information on the pad is below. I will stick with this pad and report back. Also open to any ideas others may have.


http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... t-13218097


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We did something similar to what you did with our older Hobies, (the old wet butt design).
We ended cutting up a 1.5” thick pool float mattress, it was vinyl dipped latex foam. We cut the outside profile to the same shape of the seat bottom, ( with scizzors). Then placed the whole works into a mesh lobster catch bag, with a cinch opening, ( think of an open mesh laundry bag). We just slipped the seat bottom and the foam into the lobster bag and sinched the bag shut in the back. Kept everything together just fine kept my butt dry and drained just fine. We had a trailer for our TI and stored the fully rigged boat in the garage, left the seats in all the time.
No issues over 3-4 yrs.
We drive on the highway, never had problems, just folding the seat backs down.
We are thinking about buying a new TI, but I liked the old seats, ( because of my bad back). Retrofitting an old style seat sounds to be a possible solution for me.
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
the riddler wrote:
Also open to any ideas others may have.

Nice work Riddler. I added the Vantage seats to our TI and love them as they are great for sailing but I do prefer the older style seats in my Adventure for kayaking. I chose the last of the Adventures over the Revo 16 just for the seat style.
For comfort without too much extra height I’ve been using an Airhawk motorcycle cushion. 2 years of saltwater use at least weekly and it looks like new. No zipper or valve corrosion at all. The air cell technology works really well. More info:
https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 7&p=278925
Other alternative seats here:
https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 69&t=51971
Closed cell camping floor mats make a lightweight low height seat base and are easily cut/ shaped to fit. The ones with holes allow for drainage. They don’t absorb water.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:56 am 
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Those are good choices. I needed a pad that is angled or slopped. If you compare the 2014 to 2015 and newer you can see the incline. That’s the reason why I chose the pad to stay at a somewhat recumbent position.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:41 am 
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kross57 wrote:
Get rid of the kickstand and make the seat so the legs can be removed completely or lowered farther.


Just to be clear - you guys know that the legs do fold up - and the seat can sit flat on the floor. I think perhaps this sentence I read from Kross tells me maybe he was in the middle position? - not on the floor.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Jbernier wrote:
kross57 wrote:
Get rid of the kickstand and make the seat so the legs can be removed completely or lowered farther.


Just to be clear - you guys know that the legs do fold up - and the seat can sit flat on the floor. I think perhaps this sentence I read from Kross tells me maybe he was in the middle position? - not on the floor.



Do a video and post here and show us what we are doing wrong.

You can take off the side mounting brackets and put the seat in all the way to the bottom and almost touch the deck. That was a concept i considered but it was uncomfortable and I would still have a seat that will rip and need to be rebuilt. Hobie has the vantage seat rebuilding kit that 170 lb anglers already ripped and had to buy that kit. I can put a standard kayak seat in with an angled pad and get could comfort and low to the deck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:06 pm 
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I am referring to the 2 legs that prop up the rear of the seat - You can flip those under and the rear of the frame sits flat on the hull - the front is also adjustable - but the thing I was struck by was the sentence where he wrote about the legs sticking down. The fold up. I have seen where guys have reversed the system so that the legs stay out - thus making the default position in the middle - but we set the seats up with the handle for those pegs to flip up so the seat rests all the way down. I remember this being a topic early on where guys didn't like how the seats would go to the low position every time they sat up... here's how the seat is supposed to work - in the manual: https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/Mirage_Kayak_Manual_-_MD180.pdf#page=17 (page 17 specifically)

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