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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:26 am
Posts: 9
Yeah its definatly harder to close with the "triangle out"! Wow

I press down on the hatch itself while turning the latch and it goes in ok though, I was worried with the amount of pressure that the seal would twist again - but it hasnt after a few test "shuts" now :) It definatly feels sealed lols.

The seal got a real workout today in bad chop when i was trying to get the scupper trolley under the yak to head home after a day out (small waves were breaking over the back of my outback which is very unusual where I live) so the hatch really copped alot of water over it - and I made sure to give it a real good hose off as well when i got home as well....

I let the yak sit on the trolley with the nose on the ground for 10minutes to check for water after hosing it off.....there was only a tiny tiny amount in the hull now - a single tissue would of pretty much got the lot cleaned up (I would class it as waterproof now - I know I have a couple of other tiny drips when I hose my yak off from the sounders wiring - I ran out of glue though for small bits/tiny drips like that - and they shouldnt leak when out and about - only when hosing off I think)

Looks like my rear hatch is really nice and watertight now :) When I got my outback - I heard about common front hatch leaks in them too so I also immediatly "backed off" the tension on the flat straps at the front hatch when my yak got delivered. (the flat straps that are so tight - they lift up the front of the hatch lid preventing good contact apparently.

I backed them off and the hatch lid did seem to sit down more at the front and felt like it contacted better....and Im happy to say Ive never had any water in the front hatch at all from day one (even hose pressure gets no water in on mine from the front hatch) Not sure if it was my fix - or perhaps the 2016 models have a better seal now for the front hatches, but Im happy I also avoided deforming my hatch lid eventually from the tension on those flat front hatch straps :)

Happy camper here :) Now Im way more confident in storing better quality spare rod/reels in my hull :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:46 am
Posts: 35
Forget about getting any help from Hobie. Their standard answer is to claim there isn't a problem.

I am of the opinion that kayaks should not leak. Ever. The center hatch is a horrible design. I have a plastic box centered under that hatch so I know it leaks and how much - about a pint an hour. You might consider replacing it with a standard old screw-hatch. I've used these in lots of other kayaks with no leaks. http://duckworksbbs.com/hardware/hatche ... /index.htm


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:40 pm
Posts: 1210
Contrary to prevailing wisdom, I have always used "Dielectric grease" on my o-rings and on the plastic sealing surface. You need to clean up the o-ring and mating surface prior to applying the Dielectric grease.....a little goes a long way.
I really think the key is to not use too much grease and I never had an issue with sand/dirt/foreign junk causing a problem. I used this solution on my original 2010 Outback and now my 2013 PA-14.

Just my take on a solution that worked for me, for the past 6 years.

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Hood River, OR


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3005
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Personally it is very seldom I ever put any thing inside the hull, or actively use any twist and stow hatches. Especially the rear most hatch on my TI which you can't even reach when out on the water. What the heck would you ever store in there that you would need to access while out.
Because my modified TI is 2-3x faster than any other TI's out there, all the scupper holes become drinking fountains while underway and the rear deck area and the rear seating areas fill up completely with water while underway. Water just pours into the hull thru the two rear T/S hatches. Water comes in thru the O-ring and also thru the perimiter of the hatch. Removing the hatch and dropping a bead of silicone around the opening helps on the perimeter seal.
On days where I plan to go out in open ocean and rough seas I simply tape over my unused hatches, including the front hatch (I tape a garbage bag over the front hatch).
The only things that I store in my front hatch (which I can't access while out on the water). Are my safety gear, (vary pistol, flares, first aid kit, repair kit, etc). I also keep one gallon of emergency gas in a sealed gas can, which is inserted into a 6 pack cooler (in six years I have never needed to access that emergency fuel (about 100 miles worth of fuel).
When I get home I always take everything out of the hull, vac out all the water with a wet/dry vac, then leave all the hatches open with fans running in the garage. Seems to work ok for me.
I hate all the hatches on our TI, they all leak like a siv, and I feel Hobie could have done a better job on all of them.
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:40 am
Posts: 3
I joined this forum for this specific issue with my 2013 Mirage Sport. It is just ridiculous. Hobie should have never put these hatches on the market or should just offer to replace them. It happened to mine from day # 1, as soon as I opened the hatch and tried to close it again. I can't confidently open the hatch where I keep my fishing tackle because water will get in the drop in storage container and rust everything. I didn't buy a Hobie because I wanted problems, I wanted something that worked without problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13234
Location: Oceanside, California
Yes, a small amount of water on the hatch will drip into the hatch when it is opened. This is an issue with most hatches as water around the lip can drip in. Trust me... the Twist and Seal is far better than the older Viking hatches we used to use. Talk about a sieve! The rectangular hatch design has addressed these issues and I hope we can roll some of those features into the round ones.

The good: They do seal better than previous hatches. The hatch lid is attached and can not be lost.

You do need to keep silicone lubricant on the o ring and the hatch cylinder. The hatch may sit at an slight angle when only closed using the T handle. The hatch will still be sealed, but a simple press with the palm of your hand with level the hatch in the ring.

We get it about the drip when opened, but boats are rarely water tight. You must expect some water to get in somewhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:40 am
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mmiller wrote:
Yes, a small amount of water on the hatch will drip into the hatch when it is opened. This is an issue with most hatches as water around the lip can drip in. Trust me... the Twist and Seal is far better than the older Viking hatches we used to use. Talk about a sieve! The rectangular hatch design has addressed these issues and I hope we can roll some of those features into the round ones.

The good: They do seal better than previous hatches. The hatch lid is attached and can not be lost.

You do need to keep silicone lubricant on the o ring and the hatch cylinder. The hatch may sit at an slight angle when only closed using the T handle. The hatch will still be sealed, but a simple press with the palm of your hand with level the hatch in the ring.

We get it about the drip when opened, but boats are rarely water tight. You must expect some water to get in somewhere.


I wasn't really seeking an opinion on the matter to be honest, just stating a fact that the hatches are not fit for purpose. I just leave the O-rings off and at least that way the hatch performs its basic function in that it opens and closes, just means slightly more water gets in.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:06 am
Posts: 2
HobieSport13 wrote:
I joined this forum for this specific issue with my 2013 Mirage Sport. It is just ridiculous. Hobie should have never put these hatches on the market or should just offer to replace them. It happened to mine from day # 1, as soon as I opened the hatch and tried to close it again. I can't confidently open the hatch where I keep my fishing tackle because water will get in the drop in storage container and rust everything. I didn't buy a Hobie because I wanted problems, I wanted something that worked without problems.


Coming in a bit late on this but I have to agree. I was shocked at how bad this hatch performed. This is still true for 2016 sport models. The hatch sits to low and water pools up on top of it. Every Time its opened, water dribbles in. A minor adjustment like raising the hatch up slightly help. On top of that the lid sits uneven and doesn't flush. Just hard to swallow after dropping so much money. Given the years that hobie has been doing kayaks. I expected them to have this nailed. Everything else seems to be high in quality.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3005
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
My opinion is we are ignoring the elephant in the room here. Yes the round hatches leak a little once in a while. In our case if I do nothing special on the round hatches (ie... taping over them) on a typical day offshore in fairly rough seas I'll get maybe a quart or two in the hull coming in all the round hatches and a little coming in the rudder string tubes. This is acceptable to me. Yes you get a few drips whenever you open a hatch, that's not a big issue to me either.
The big issue for me is the front hatch (ie... the elephant in the room). In calm conditions I get very little water entry in the front hatch however in fairly rough conditions I get as much as 5-10 gallons of water in the hull in a couple hours of operation offshore. This is downright dangerous and makes the boat completely unsuitable for offshore use.
I can't tell you how many times I have gone out in winds over 10-12 mph (we have great trade winds off key west), we often do 50-60 mile day sails (our TI is souped up just a bit). We have had to come in many times with the stern completely underwater and the hull full of water and had to beach somewhere and pump the water out of the hull.
When sitting static all my front hatch seals seal nicely, I can squirt a hose on the front hatch with no leakage.
I'm pretty sure all the water comes in via boat flex, as the boat goes threw the water the bow flexes and twists several inches. If the seal had been a cork in a bottle type wiping seal (like the round hatches) the problem would be much less.
On my boat if I lift the boat by the bow I can see a 1/4 gap open up at the center of the hatch seal where water just pours in.
I wish Hobie would offer an aftermarket vinyl shower cap that slips over the hatch opening. This way they could keep their current design and people who go out in rough conditions can buy one for $15 bucks and only need to use it when planning to go out in rough conditions (basically any winds over 10 mph).
A simple fix to a complex problem, yea we can make our own fixes, many have, but why should we have to, I've had 3 TI's over the last 7 yrs, all have the exact same problem (massive amounts of water entry in the front hatch in anything but dead calm conditions).
This is the main reason we tend to stay home in any conditions over 7mph winds. Our TI is physically exhausting to operate at any speeds over 10mph (even in 5mph winds and flat seas).
Currently I just tape over the front hatch when I plan to go out offshore ( super PIA).
Just a suggestion ( the shower cap)
FE


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 427
The shower cap is not a dumb idea for the islands and revo 16 as it is not a hatch designed for normal access while on the water. It is a good back up even for boats that dont leak, one day they might unexpectantly.

Some kind of profiling on the center hatches to prevent water pouring in when you open them would help, for me it means squid ink on everything stored in there. I store all my tackle in hull and so it is opened and closed the whole time


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2972
Location: Escondido
HobieSport13 wrote:
I can't confidently open the hatch where I keep my fishing tackle because water will get in the drop in storage container and rust everything. I didn't buy a Hobie because I wanted problems, I wanted something that worked without problems.
Welcome to the forum. They have these sealable sacks called "dry bags" to put things in. For your rusting fishing gear, how about a Tupperware container? The truth is, almost all boats leak. Ships leak, submarines leak, bass boats leak and they cost a lot more than a leaky Hobie. Leaks come from not only hatches, but any through-hull openings -- rudder lines, rudder control etc. I get zero to a quart depending on conditions and activities. I also get water over the sides and in my seat, not to mention occasional wind spray. All of my Hobies have always leaked to some degree. It probably detracts about 1% from the pleasure of being on the water. It's a sad fact that if Hobie didn't have so many nice features they wouldn't leak so much!

HobieSport13 wrote:
I just leave the O-rings off and at least that way the hatch performs its basic function in that it opens and closes, just means slightly more water gets in.
That's one way to solve your problem! If your hatches are that hard to operate with the designed seal, a shot of silicon spray on the pivot handle and worm gear might be another way to make it easier (and dryer). 8)


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:06 am
Posts: 2
fusioneng wrote:
My opinion is we are ignoring the elephant in the room here. Yes the round hatches leak a little once in a while. In our case if I do nothing special on the round hatches (ie... taping over them) on a typical day offshore in fairly rough seas I'll get maybe a quart or two in the hull coming in all the round hatches and a little coming in the rudder string tubes. This is acceptable to me. Yes you get a few drips whenever you open a hatch, that's not a big issue to me either.
The big issue for me is the front hatch (ie... the elephant in the room). In calm conditions I get very little water entry in the front hatch however in fairly rough conditions I get as much as 5-10 gallons of water in the hull in a couple hours of operation offshore. This is downright dangerous and makes the boat completely unsuitable for offshore use.
I can't tell you how many times I have gone out in winds over 10-12 mph (we have great trade winds off key west), we often do 50-60 mile day sails (our TI is souped up just a bit). We have had to come in many times with the stern completely underwater and the hull full of water and had to beach somewhere and pump the water out of the hull.
When sitting static all my front hatch seals seal nicely, I can squirt a hose on the front hatch with no leakage.
I'm pretty sure all the water comes in via boat flex, as the boat goes threw the water the bow flexes and twists several inches. If the seal had been a cork in a bottle type wiping seal (like the round hatches) the problem would be much less.
On my boat if I lift the boat by the bow I can see a 1/4 gap open up at the center of the hatch seal where water just pours in.
I wish Hobie would offer an aftermarket vinyl shower cap that slips over the hatch opening. This way they could keep their current design and people who go out in rough conditions can buy one for $15 bucks and only need to use it when planning to go out in rough conditions (basically any winds over 10 mph).
A simple fix to a complex problem, yea we can make our own fixes, many have, but why should we have to, I've had 3 TI's over the last 7 yrs, all have the exact same problem (massive amounts of water entry in the front hatch in anything but dead calm conditions).
This is the main reason we tend to stay home in any conditions over 7mph winds. Our TI is physically exhausting to operate at any speeds over 10mph (even in 5mph winds and flat seas).
Currently I just tape over the front hatch when I plan to go out offshore ( super PIA).
Just a suggestion ( the shower cap)
FE


I am peddling a hobie sport and the short length makes leaks from the front hatch concerning. Just last weekend we had high winds and the chop was pretty big in some areas of the lake when going back against the wind. With such a short boat the whole bow was dipping down into the next wave. There was a couple times I actually had the tip of the bow right up to the front hatch dipping under the water a cm or two. This explains why most images I see of the TI in action. People have various methods for taping and sealing over this hatch. Ill have to do testing on mine. Its a small boat but I take it in bigger waters and offshore frequently. So far just a few cups of water max over 3 to 4 hours.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:40 am
Posts: 3
Roadrunner wrote:
HobieSport13 wrote:
I can't confidently open the hatch where I keep my fishing tackle because water will get in the drop in storage container and rust everything. I didn't buy a Hobie because I wanted problems, I wanted something that worked without problems.
Welcome to the forum. They have these sealable sacks called "dry bags" to put things in. For your rusting fishing gear, how about a Tupperware container? The truth is, almost all boats leak. Ships leak, submarines leak, bass boats leak and they cost a lot more than a leaky Hobie. Leaks come from not only hatches, but any through-hull openings -- rudder lines, rudder control etc. I get zero to a quart depending on conditions and activities. I also get water over the sides and in my seat, not to mention occasional wind spray. All of my Hobies have always leaked to some degree. It probably detracts about 1% from the pleasure of being on the water. It's a sad fact that if Hobie didn't have so many nice features they wouldn't leak so much!

HobieSport13 wrote:
I just leave the O-rings off and at least that way the hatch performs its basic function in that it opens and closes, just means slightly more water gets in.
That's one way to solve your problem! If your hatches are that hard to operate with the designed seal, a shot of silicon spray on the pivot handle and worm gear might be another way to make it easier (and dryer). 8)


It is not really the leaking that bothers me, it is more the basic function of being unable to open and close the hatch that is the issue. I have the Hobie deep tackle box for the 8" hatch and any tackle that goes in there is in a zip lock bag to protect it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:43 am 
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You might consider that the body of the kayak is changing shape and causing a different pressure on the hatch itself?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:14 am 
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We often launch and land in breaking surf. I have rarely found more than 6 cups of water in the hull, which is acceptable for me.
The front hatch has been great for landing king fish and other large toothed species , I open and close the straps with a small peg attached to the gaff when the conditions permit.
My fish finder battery is located under the plastic holder of the center hatch. Works well for me and allows a central weight position. To date, I have not found a better alternative.
good fortune to all on your next outing.


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