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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:31 pm 
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Well, I'm not entirely sure I actually have a question. Just some thoughts.

A while ago I stumbled over the Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks mainly by coincidence. I've been doing (and still do) my share of cycling - which a couple of years ago also led me into recumbent bikes (and made me get my self a velomobile). Just for fun I was recently checking human [leg] powered boats/kayaks and of course Hobie came up in my searches.
So I started reading and collecting all the info I could. I got hooked.

Well, I understand that peddling with the Mirage Drive isn't specifically comparable to cycling. The movement is different and perhaps other things as well. But that doesn't really matter.
I'm born on an island, have been out on the sea a lot and that's a natural part of my "needs". However during the last 15 years I've not really been able to (other tasks stealing time and energy) but recently my urge to get my self a boat has been growing bigger. So several pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together.

The area/coast where I live has got a very nice archipelago - perfect for kayaks and such (however no Hobies around here - as far as I know). My main aim is going on various trips/tours and just kind of "being out". Fishing might come in, but it's certainly not a priority. I've been contemplating between the 13 and 16 Revolution as well as the Adventure Island. The latter would be very nice for many reasons (economy says otherwise) but I'm also interested in simplicity and a possibility of towing the kayak on a bicycle trailer. Then a smaller and lighter kayak would come in handy but I'm fairly confident in being able to tow even a long Revo 16 with equipment and packing behind a bike on the rather short distances that I have to the sea. Furthermore I'm interested in having a fast "glider" out on the sea and therefore the Revo 16 seems to be both some kind of a perfect compromise and the kayak I believe I want. However I have very limited possibilities of testing one. I live far from the retailer and they normally don't have them in stock.

The Revolution 16 seems to be one of the least used Hobie Kayaks - judging by a smaller amount of reviews, images and such - compared to some other models... or I'm just a bit blind.

Anyhow. The Autumn is ending the summer and the season is about to end. So I have some months of further thinking before it'll be time to order the kayak ahead of nest spring/season/summer.
/Robert


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:51 pm 
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We got a 2015 Revo 16 three months ago after seeing one on a kayak trip to the Adirondaks the previous fall. The lady pedaling her Adventure 16 (same hull as the Revo 16) was able to keep up with my wife and I in our paddle kayaks, which we have had for years, both Current Design models that can move through the water pretty efficiently. We love it - the pedaling got easier the more we got out, it's as stable as our sit inside kayaks and the seat is very comfortable.

You can cover some serious miles with this boat if you've a mind to and if you want to change it up, just pull out the mirage drive, put in the hull plug, pull up the rudder and get a good upper body workout with the paddle. It's not quite as fast paddling as my Solstice, but it's not very far off.

Oh, and if you want to have some more fun, get the sailing package...it's not a Laser, but you can have a ball scooting around with a good breeze.

I've only fished with it a few times and loved the hands free capability - this is an extremely versatile craft. Highly recommended.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:15 pm 
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Smith wrote:
We got a 2015 Revo 16 three months ago after seeing one on a kayak trip to the Adirondaks the previous fall. The lady pedaling her Adventure 16 (same hull as the Revo 16) was able to keep up with my wife and I in our paddle kayaks, which we have had for years, both Current Design models that can move through the water pretty efficiently. We love it - the pedaling got easier the more we got out, it's as stable as our sit inside kayaks and the seat is very comfortable.

You can cover some serious miles with this boat if you've a mind to and if you want to change it up, just pull out the mirage drive, put in the hull plug, pull up the rudder and get a good upper body workout with the paddle. It's not quite as fast paddling as my Solstice, but it's not very far off.

Oh, and if you want to have some more fun, get the sailing package...it's not a Laser, but you can have a ball scooting around with a good breeze.

I've only fished with it a few times and loved the hands free capability - this is an extremely versatile craft. Highly recommended.



Sounds very good!
I consider myself being in fairly good shape, but all my strength sits in the legs - so the Revo 16 will surely be equipped with Turbo fins. However I also see a good chance in getting that upper body workout with the paddle. Because I really need that! And I desperately need to to have tons of fun in order to do any training at all. I reckon - no, I'm confident - the Kayak will provide that kind of fun.

A sail - Absolutely! But I'll probably add that later on.
...And now it's just about eight months before it's possible to put a boat in the sea around here.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Rest assured that there are plenty of 16s out there (either the current Revo 16, or the Adventure on which it was based, or in the form of the Adventure Island hull); I do not believe that there is anything in your suggestion that it is one of the least used of the models: I would suggest that the reality is probably the other way around. History will come into the equation - in that the Outback is one of the earliest designs so Outbacks are probably relatively common whereas the Revo 13 and 11 are later models so there are possibly comparatively few of them around - but that doesn't mean squat in terms of suitability to what it sounds like you are looking for. I guess that the Hobie Cat Company is the only source of accurate information on exactly what the sales numbers are for each of the models but I seriously doubt that they would divulge such commercially sensitive details to the world. The thing is that clearly kayak buyers have choices and they buy into different hull designs for different reasons; just because one person or group of people chose a particular kayak design for them doesn't mean that it will necessarily be best for you. So I suggest you do not spend too much time trying to work why/what other people saw in their purchase decisions but make your own mind up based on your requirements (which sound very similar to my own actually).

So to get back to your requirements and the merits of the Mirage Drive and the Revo 16 (which I know as the Adventure). I got into the Mirage Drive years ago and have had an Adventure since the day they arrived in NZ - previously I had an Outback but I have never been in a Revo 13 or 11.

You are right that the pedaling action is not exactly the same as cycling - it is almost, but not quite, and definitely uses a slightly different muscle group (it is like a recumbent stepper with a speed governor on it). But if you have fitness for cycling you should get comfortable with it quickly.

Others have tested and found that the Adventure was marginally quicker than the Revo 13 - I am guessing that the Revo 16 might be marginally quicker again than the Adventure but I suspect that any slight increase in speed over the Adventure might be very marginal. (Can anybody else advise here?).

Which suggests that your best choices will be between the 16 and the 13. This is assuming that the AI is off limits due to cost, weight and complexity - I have one and compared to the Adventure all these factors are accurate in terms of a comparison. The TI is more expensive, heavier, etc. Sounds like you do not want to go for something with 2 seats which if you did, the Oasis is a great choice as a versatile touring boat. IMO the Outback, R11 and Sport are not going to give you the touring speed that you are looking for and that the inflatables are probably a bit too compromised towards 'recreational' use and away from sea-going robustness.

As to the choice between the 13 and the 16: I am sure that they're both great boats (I can attest to the fact that the Adventure is; as said, I haven't tried the 13 but only hear good things about it). The key comparisons between them will be weight, length, carrying capacity, speed and sailability. The first three are givens or knowns: you can look them up, use a tape measure, do towing simulations, etc, etc. Speed difference is more difficult to measure precisely but is most likely marginally in favour of the 16. Which leaves sailing ability as the other 'unknown' and in this the 16 has a clear advantage due to the (optional) daggerboard which transforms the sailing performance of the Adventure/16 over any of the other Hobie kayaks (as opposed to trimaran kayaks). Now I don't know if you have considered sailing whatever kayak you buy, but if you are into touring and have good conditions (lightish winds are best due to the small size of the boats) and are happy to learn sailing, then the sailing performance factor is something that should be important to you, now or in the future. My requirements sound not dissimilar to your own and I absolutely love sailing my Adventure. Sailing is also a third means of propulsion which has helped me out of a jam (drive failures) on more than one tour and it is a great way of extending your range with little effort as long as you don't have particular deadlines to meet (pedalling is usually faster).

So I think you are on the right track and as long as you are willing to buy into the Mirage Drive concept without a demo first (I did when I first got into it) then I do not think you will be disappointed with either the 13 or the 16. It's your decision at the end of the day but it sounds to me like the 16 might just have the edge if those unknown factors become the decision points between the boats...

Hope this helps!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:15 pm 
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Quote:
I am guessing that the Revo 16 might be marginally quicker again than the Adventure but I suspect that any slight increase in speed over the Adventure might be very marginal. (Can anybody else advise here?).


Adventure and Revo 16 are the same hull... same speed. Just a new name to continue the hull as a Mirage Kayak after we modified the main hull of the "Adventure Island".

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:56 am 
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Many thanks for the comments and the well-founded thoughts!

Well, one part of me would prefer The Adventure Island since it would perhaps give me access to slightly longer trips (in suitable winds).
Edit: and it would be more stable in tougher weather.
I'm sometimes participating in various local environmental projects (like sea bird inventories) and such. So it would be nice to combine kayaking with those "tasks".
Anyhow. There is always a question of various aspects (price tag not the least) and smaller compromises.
The Revo 16 is most certainly capable of assisting me during those trips as well.

I only consider the use of slightly different muscle groups (Peddling vs. cycling) as a positive feature. It's the same between my traditional race bike and my recumbent velomobile as well. I think it was mentioned somewhere, that the difference in muscle use is around 10% between the two (if one tries to put a percentage to it). It took about two months before I felt that I could have the same efficiency in the recumbent as on the race bike. But I haven't felt that I've lost anything when switching back to the race bike even if it has been unused for a long period. I don't have to get used to it again. On the contrary, i have the impression that I'm even stronger on the race bike than before. Perhaps due to stronger support from those muscle groups that are secondary (but still important) during a specific form of practice. But now I'm only speculating...

Regarding sailing, I have had exactly the same thoughts when it comes to "safety" - in other words: yet another method to propel the boat forward if other things for some reason fail.

And by the way, My assumption that the Revo 16 might be a bit more uncommon "out there" was just a loose suspicion based on me not finding as much "owner reports" or reviews about it as for some of the others. But I haven't counted search hits either - I just had the impression that any other Hobie Kayak shows up in greater numbers even when searching for the Revo 16.
And I didn't interpret that as something against the Revo 16 - that it would be unpopular or something. The reviews I've seen have been very positive.
So mentioning it was, from my side slightly, unimportant. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:18 am 
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Well. It sure took some time, but today I could at last go out on a first - and rather brief - test run with the (my) Revo 16 that arrived last tuesday.
Indeed plenty of fun.

My cycling practice have due to several reasons been close to nothing during the last year, thus leaving me with the worst physical shape in several years. Well, it's not perhaps bad - but it could be much, much better. In other words I quickly started feeling the burn in my thigh muscles.
Anyhow. Such small issues will vanish along the way.

Turbo fins and the larger rudder where installed prior to the premiere. Even though I didn't try with the standard ones - I somehow feel that these more effective versions are almost obligatory. I wouldn't have liked to peddle more lightly and I didn't feel the big rudder being too aggressive. They worked just as I'd want them to.
This kayak is surely going to give me a great deal of fun and satisfaction.

I just have to end the peddle strokes a tiny tad earlier. Then it'll be quiet as well :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:30 pm 
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I think the trick with mirage kayaks once you have your legs built up to them (it takes about a season) is to pedal at what I would call a walking pace 40-50 cpm (cycles per minute). When we are out we are not trying to race anyone, and peddling at that pace seems to keep pace with other regular paddle kayaks (normal people (paddlers) at their normal distance pace in regular recreational kayak. Not tryin to win any races. At that pace both me and my wife can do 8-10 hrs with a few pauses. Of course we can't keep up with surfski's or big long expensive sea kayaks, but those are a different class of boat.
The longer hobie kayaks like the adventure, revo 16, and TI have a huge edge over the shorter Hobies because they glide and track very well (because of the length).
Good luck
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:27 am 
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You can fine tune the efficiency of your Mirage Drive pedaling by monitoring your speed with a hand-held GPS or a fish finder with GPS features. I think you will find that long and somewhat slower strokes will provide you with more speed than short fast strokes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Congratulations on your new boat and don't worry: you'll soon have legs like pit props


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:42 am 
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I'm older, and my back is pretty shot, along with my hip, so I can't walk or run any distance, and the mechanics of riding a regular bike from an upright position doesn't work for me. Because of my back, I can't paddle any distance.
However peddling my Tandem Island doesn't bother me a bit, so anymore that's my main exercise program.
Not tryin to win any races, I just pedal at a rate I can sustain for hrs (like a walking pace). The way I have my boat rigged I have to supply 20% of my propulsion needs via peddling.
It works for me anyway.
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:47 am 
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I fish in a lot of heavy current in Long Island Sound. The 16 has much less drag than all other Hobie kayak models. This lets me pull up to a rip, and maintain position while castng upcurrent towards structure.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:36 am 
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Third summer with the Revo 16.
Still a joy.
Here are som clips from a 14 nautical mile roundtrip yesterday.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:18 am 
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Good vid, shows just how well the revo 16 cuts through the water.

As you have the 2015 model just wondering if you ever had any issues with leaks through the rear wiring grommet in the tankwell? This was moved to the bulkhead in later models


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:36 am 
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WAVERIDER wrote:
Good vid, shows just how well the revo 16 cuts through the water.

As you have the 2015 model just wondering if you ever had any issues with leaks through the rear wiring grommet in the tankwell? This was moved to the bulkhead in later models


It does indeed move well through the wet.
I hold a steady pace of 8,5 km/h (5,3 miles/h or 4,6 knots) in average and that's with a convenient, relaxed level of effort.
Not bad by a hull that also is very stable in the water and has a confident feel to it.

I have the 2016 model with the wiring grommet up on the bulkhead.
Got it in the summer of 2016 and thus it would perhaps be more proper to say I've had it for two and a half summer rather than three :)
But it is the third summer anyway.
It has been out in rough seas with considerate spray and lots of water in the tankwell, in the well underneath the seat and water pounding the hatches.
I think I drained out about one or two litres (0.25 - 0.5 gallons) of water after an hour of constant waves over the hull, but that seems fair enough.


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