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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Staktup, 10 months on, of at least weekly use, the VHB tape bond remains solid. No lifting at all anywhere.
I consider the skeg addition as one of the most significant mods I’ve made, so thanks for the original idea! 8)
I like to paddle (for exercise) and the skegs make comfortable, rudderless paddling possible in much stronger winds than before. No more wasting more energy on keeping it straight than going forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:08 pm 
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I am new to kayaking, have a used Oasis which I have moored being my boat in the Oceanside Marina. So far I mostly go ou alone, sitting in front (per Roadrunners suggestion) with maybe 25lbs ballast in the back. Recently I left the pedals out, and just tried paddling, mostly for exercise, but also to see how it handled. Had a heck of a time, once it started turning, hard to stop. Rudder helped quite a bit, but sort of a PIA to keep adjusting. Will these skegs work well on the Oasis as well? Does it make any difference being in the ocean (I.e. waves)? I was thinking of ties the pedals together on one of the mirage units, and putting in the rear location, would this work as well? Realistically I might not do too much paddling outside the protected harbor, although would like the option for sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
stringy wrote:

Remembering your old Oasis, that was probably the most modded boat on the forum! Dual sails, converted T&S rudder, retractable daggerboard, custom hatches, etc. etc. Didn't you also put a Photon Drive in that? It should probably be in a museum if it isn't already! :D



Is there possibly a thread on some of these mods? I don’t see too much on the Oasis.

Thx

Greg


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Greg,

I never tried the fins when I had an Oasis (2013 model I believe). Rather than use your second drive a ventral fin (which is more to carry and lose if you don't leash it when going solo), maybe take a stock or larger sailing rudder and bolt it on to a drive well plug to act as sort of a daggerboard in the rear drive?

I found the Oasis to be a better paddling hull than an Outback or Sport, and had decent glide. But when she wants to turn, there is no stopping her.

I also wondere if you can rig a dual-purpose rod holder made of PVC to fit into the molded holders. There can be an extension that rises to hold the reel stems, and a Tee where a section juts out and down towards the water. Here, a skeg can be attached, long enough to get down deep like a mirage fins. The entire unit can be one-piece: fins that jut below the waterline, rod mounts across the top maybe 4-5.

I may do that one day out of sheer bordeom. Good luck Greg! If I have time, I'll try and draw a diagram but gotta figure out how to post images on this damn forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:52 am 
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Thank Stakrup. The local dealer had suggested the idea of some sort of rudder bolted to a well plug as well. I don’t have a well plug, but could purchase one, as well as a rudder which I guess I would cut off the top and somehow bolt to the plug? I’m not at all handy, but have a good friend who is.

The dealer also suggested using a mirage drive in the rear well, mostly because I have a tandem, and there is no cost or other fabrication involved. I don’t plan to use the mirage drive while paddling, the goal for me is exercise.

I didn’t really understand your other idea involving a dual purpose rod holder? One issue I have is that my Kayak is tied up to my boat, which has limited space, anything I take off it between uses is stored somewhere on it. I already have both mirage drives, the sail, and the seats stored on it.

What intrigued me about the skegs was that, once done, there is nothing further to be done or remember (I’m 70, memory getting a bit weak :D ). Do you think they might not work well due ro the size of the Oasis?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:49 am 
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If you pm me your email address, I can send you a pic of a sketch I just did. And if you send me your address,
I will send you not one, but 2 mirage drive plugs. If you cut into them, you may want to consider filling the cavities with spray foam so they don’t get waterlogged.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:50 am 
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But sticking on 2 fins is a much faster and cheaper experiment!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:29 am 
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Sent you a PM, Thanks!!

Im gonna go back and re-read this thread, will perhaps try the kegs as well. Will have the Kayak out of the water next week to clean the hull and apply 303 UV protectant, will look at it then.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
stringy wrote:
I will also follow their prepping instructions using a mix of water and isopropyl alcohol to clean the hull, instead of the acetone I used.
If this doesn’t work long term, I’ll try Scotchweld DP8010 epoxy.
Great ideas here! I've been experimenting with bonding paint to a Hobie restoration project and tried a variety of processes. In all cases, bonding was improved by flame treating the PE. Here are some preliminary paint scrape tests showing various degrees of adhesion with different applications.

Image

If "flaming" can improve paint bonding, it should also improve adhesive bonding. In fact, It does (although not nearly as well as DP 8010).

A word of caution -- flame treatment heats the surface only, not the body of your work. To succeed, the hot flame passes very quickly over the job -- when you're done it should look like nothing happened (not even any gloss on the surface). Here are a couple of links to give you an idea of just how fast this works.

This video is good, but I think he over heats by going back over his job. Seems to work though.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... ction=view

This video is better in that shows how quickly the process goes (and how close the flame is).
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... ction=view



When I use either of these links I get a large list of potential sites, not a specific one?

Would it be possible to perhaps refer me to a specific YouTube type demo? It seems like a very necessary procedure, but I am a little apprehensive about it as well :shock:


Thx

Greg


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Gregbenner wrote:


When I use either of these links I get a large list of potential sites, not a specific one?

Would it be possible to perhaps refer me to a specific YouTube type demo? It seems like a very necessary procedure, but I am a little apprehensive about it as well :shock:


Thx

Greg


When I click on them there is a specific video in focus and large. It might be your browser configuration or the device you are using.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXYGZp5kUgE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohTYONRUE-M


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Pounces links above are good. Note how quickly the bucket rotates.
The trick is to pass the flame quickly over the hull so that it doesn’t melt/burn.
I used the tip of the blue inner flame as a gauge for distance from the hull. The only change to the hull you should see are clear vapours/haze coming off the plastic as you pass the torch over. You do not want to see distortion or smoke.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Gregbenner wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
stringy wrote:

Remembering your old Oasis, that was probably the most modded boat on the forum! Dual sails, converted T&S rudder, retractable daggerboard, custom hatches, etc. etc. Didn't you also put a Photon Drive in that? It should probably be in a museum if it isn't already! :D



Is there possibly a thread on some of these mods? I don’t see too much on the Oasis.

Thx

Greg

That was so long ago Greg and most of the images have disappeared. If you search for:
keyword = (whatever you are interested in)
author = stringy
and go back to the earliest of posts you should come across original Tandem/Oasis threads. I got an AI in 2008 so any posts earlier than this would relate to the Tandem/Oasis.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Location: Escondido
staktup wrote:
I never tried the fins when I had an Oasis (2013 model I believe). Rather than use your second drive a ventral fin (which is more to carry and lose if you don't leash it when going solo), maybe take a stock or larger sailing rudder and bolt it on to a drive well plug to act as sort of a daggerboard in the rear drive?
Gregbenner wrote:
The local dealer had suggested the idea of some sort of rudder bolted to a well plug as well.
The rear drivewell would be a good spot for a daggerboard of you're sailing, but not so good for a skeg. They perform different functions -- Daggerboards are located near the middle of the boat and help the boat pivot (in addition to other duties); skegs are located near the stern and provide directional stability. That's also why, for example, arrows and darts have vanes at the back.

Since staktup reported good results with the skeglets on an Oasis, this may be a good option. With the boat moored, the fact that they stick out past the bottom may not be a factor.

Part of the problem with the rudder as a skeg is line slack. If the directional lines are not taut, the rudder can wiggle and will not hold a heading without constant correction. As it gets cooler this time of year, the boat shrinks slightly and the rudder lines need to be snugged up. The best way to adjust it is to put the rudder down, locked and centered, then remove any slack in the lines. It's quick and easy with a Phillips head screwdriver. You don't need to mess with the up and down lines. Properly set, the rudder does not move unless moved, and the rudder control is held in place by line friction. Once centered, it should hold your boat on course without having to make frequent corrections. You might try this before doing anything more elaborate. I paddle/pedal the Revo 11 and Revo 16 regularly with the rudder appropriately configured and have no problems. Regardless, you will find your rudder performance to be much improved. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
staktup wrote:
I never tried the fins when I had an Oasis (2013 model I believe). Rather than use your second drive a ventral fin (which is more to carry and lose if you don't leash it when going solo), maybe take a stock or larger sailing rudder and bolt it on to a drive well plug to act as sort of a daggerboard in the rear drive?
Gregbenner wrote:
The local dealer had suggested the idea of some sort of rudder bolted to a well plug as well.
The rear drivewell would be a good spot for a daggerboard of you're sailing, but not so good for a skeg. They perform different functions -- Daggerboards are located near the middle of the boat and help the boat pivot (in addition to other duties); skegs are located near the stern and provide directional stability. That's also why, for example, arrows and darts have vanes at the back.

Since staktup reported good results with the skeglets on an Oasis, this may be a good option. With the boat moored, the fact that they stick out past the bottom may not be a factor.

Part of the problem with the rudder as a skeg is line slack. If the directional lines are not taut, the rudder can wiggle and will not hold a heading without constant correction. As it gets cooler this time of year, the boat shrinks slightly and the rudder lines need to be snugged up. The best way to adjust it is to put the rudder down, locked and centered, then remove any slack in the lines. It's quick and easy with a Phillips head screwdriver. You don't need to mess with the up and down lines. Properly set, the rudder does not move unless moved, and the rudder control is held in place by line friction. Once centered, it should hold your boat on course without having to make frequent corrections. You might try this before doing anything more elaborate. I paddle/pedal the Revo 11 and Revo 16 regularly with the rudder appropriately configured and have no problems. Regardless, you will find your rudder performance to be much improved. 8)


RR, you are correct that is shouldn’t matter if the skegs stick out pat the bottom. That’s part of why I like the idea.

However, if tightening the rudder lines could do it, that is even easier. You describe the issue correctly, it just won’t hold a course. Is there possibly a YouTube which shows how to adjust the slack? I’m not real good at verbal instruction. Also, I don’t really have any reasonable way to take it to the dealer, although he might come by after work I suppose. Fortunately they are close to the harbor.,

I really appreciate everyone’s help, I’m really starting to love kayaking :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:42 pm 
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As roadrunner says further to the rear the greater the authority a skeg has (ie better tracking per size) that said a kayak pivots around the nose not its center, so a more forward placed daggerboard/skeg will help tracking. Difference is it has to be larger, bringing with it resultant drag. Downside of a rear mounted skeg is it limits manouverability, making it harder to "slide' the back around.

The mini skegs here help tracking but are not cure alls for severe weathercocking, especially so on a larger tandem, and at the same time being small they dont overly hinder manoeuvrability. So they are a good choice as fist line fixed arrangement. Larger rear skegs on ocean kayaks are usually retractable so you can set as required, and not normally right at the back. This also reduces risk of them coming out of water in choppy conditions. This can be partly achieved using a daggerboard type arrangement in a rear well in a tandem or the the daggerboard slot when provided. I find a combination of permanent mini skegs, then adding a smaller DIY daggerboard (eg profiled chopping board)as required covers most bases, next resort is drop the rudder and either let it drift free so it dampens, but doesn't stop turning. Final resort wedge a cloth under steering lever. This will generally hold you in a straight line, but completely eliminate any manoeuvrability. Already having the mini fins and a daggerboard deployed will reduce the strain placed on the dropped rudder lines.

If you intend doing a bit of paddling set up some thigh straps, even if just using cam straps and padeyes. It gets around the lack of decent feet rests and bracing in mirage hobies, enabling much better feel and control

Most importantly research and practice proper paddle control techiniques. Sea kayaking resources and tutorials are a good place for this. The less you have to rely on skegs and rudders the better as they all add drag. Learning to paddle proper without skegs and rudders is a whole new sport and quite rewarding to learn


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