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 Post subject: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:59 pm
Posts: 7
I had purchased them to keep myself from flipping. I was wondering if these things will keep me from flipping. I heard that if your kayak fills up with water and then tilts to one side that all the water in the kayak will shift to one side and the kayak will flip over even with the sidekicks. Is this true?

I was wondering if I kept the sidekicks in the down position if that would reduce the chances of flipping since it would keep the kayak more level.

Anyone out there willing to share their knowledge and experience with sidekicks?


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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:11 am 
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Hobie Fish Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 8:20 am
Posts: 413
You'd be surprised at the stability the Sidekick Ama Kit adds. There's three different height positions you can set the floats to. In the low position, the floats skim the water and greatly enhance initial stability...when cruising, set them so they are off the water and engage only for secondary stability (side to side roll) support.

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Howie Strech
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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:27 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
There should be no water in the hull to shift and make it unstable. The cockpit drains easily.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Both me and my wife are older and overweight when we first started kayaking our biggest concern was flipping when in surf or boat wakes. Just in case we put our kayaks in our heated pool and practiced getting back into the kayak. At first neither of us could re-enter a flipped kayak, after practicing we figured it out. Flipping your kayak is something you should always be prepared for and practiced once in a while. Always lash everything down. We got into kayak sailing which turned out to be our favorite pastime. Yea you flip once in a while, but it's no big deal at all. All the Hobie kayaks are sit on top kayaks, meaning the hull is sealed and can't fill with water like a sit inside kayak would. After 3-4 outings you develop the balance needed to keep from flipping, so you don't even think about it, just go out and have fun, if you flip it's no big deal, just make sure you practiced getting back on the kayak.
One other pointer is if you are in surf or in an area with boat wakes, having your double ended paddle in your hands it can be used to stabilize the boat, especially in surf.
I've seen other kayak sailers use the sidekick pontoons, (we call them training wheels lol)
We never bothered with them, yea we flipped often, (especially playing in offshore surf), it's no big deal, just like riding a horse.
Hope this helps


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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 503
Mr fusioneng, I wonder if you can digress to something probably less needed by sidekicks, but more needed by ageing inflatable kayaks - emergency stickon repair tape. They sell little expensive adhesive elastic patches in 2 types based on your material being PVC or whatever. But is there something even more high tech, like the tape folks are using to mount stuff on the roof of an RV? One of those things with numbers for a name? Reason for a better onboard remedy is that folks are being advised to not use inflatable kayaks after X years of use due to fear the seams will part. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Unfortunately I know quite a bit about all the different materials (I'm a plastics expert), and also know quite a bit about all the different bonding methods used today in industry and have the scars to prove it, (if you touch dielectric welders during operation it cooks you inside, happens a lot when designing and testing the operations, (that's what I do, is all that crap for industry).
I was asked to look at an old inflatable (Zodiac) sailboat a few months ago that had leaky seams, (probably 15 yrs old at least).
This boat happened to be made with hapalon (not pvc). I determined that it was not repairable, all the seams had broken down, the adhesives had dried out, and couldn't be saved.
My understanding is more modern boats made from fiber re-enforced pvc then dielectric welded with mostly lap joints hold up much longer, (no adhesives are used at all, the pvc is bonded thermally with a quick reacting heat source , (ie ...dielectric, laser, microwave, hot roller, etc). More recent rib and inflatable boats, ( Zodiac, etc) are made this way as well as back yard swimming pools, and inflatable hospital beds. Using mostly fiber re-enforced modern PVC's. Equipment made with these newer methods and materials should last much longer than stuff made even 10 yrs ago. Yea the materials and methods have improved in leaps and bounds so what was true ten years ago may not be true now. Plus the new fiber re-enforced materials are nearly indestructable. The sparkle swimming pool guys actually carry around a patch of their pool material around and challenge people to try and poke thru it with a knife, (I couldn't).
Hobie is very tech savvy and I'm sure they are using the most current materials and methods. Basically what I'm saying is an inflatable bought today is a totally different animal from what was available even ten yrs ago and near impossible to even puncture. Just look at the many RIB boats out there with the 40hp motors on them, many down here use them offshore. I don't think you can punture them easily, or need to worry about the seams which are all lap welded thermally.
I haven't looked at Hobie inflatables at all so I don't know much about them. Next time I go in the dealer I'll check them out and report back.
Hope this helps
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 503
Thanks FE,
But several Hobie reps are saying to toss an 8 year old and sometimes younger PVC inflatables into the recycle shredder. I was thinking the owner of an 8 year old one could reglue his seam and carry a roll of VHB or UHB tape for emergencies. This is the Ultra High Bond family that can substitute for rivets, screws, etc but I guess has a high bond time. I recently reglued a seam successfully on a craft requiring triple the psi that Hobie uses, and now carry a conventional emergency patch tape which can be fast since no chemical bond needed.

mmiller wrote:
Inflatables are not nearly as durable as a rotomolded kayak for sure. 15-20 years is certainly not expected... I would think more like under 10 and I would bet the average is closer to 5 due to the type of use, storage and heat. If you have ever been to a sailboat charter location... they have to replace inflatable dinghies annually.

P.S. http://www.boatstogo.com/fabrictest.asp claims heat welded PVC seams are dangerous to fold, and glueing is preferred:

Quote:
there is a lot of misunderstanding about "hand glued" PVC seams vs. "welded". In fact, hand glued PVC is actually solvent-welded, whereas other method is a heat-welded, and both methods result in a similar fusing of the membrane. But, heat welded PVC may be more susceptible to damage from folding than hand glued, cold welded PVC.

...

Hand Glued Seams Vs. Welded Seams

Glued (PVC)
Strength/Bond type: Strong -- Chemical/Molecular bond
Durability: Good -- Problems with old PVC boats falling apart have been resolved for over 10 years.

Welded (PVC/Polyurethane)
Strength/Bond type: Strong -- Molecular bond
Durability: If temperature, feed rate, and other factors are ideal: Good. -- Welding combined with folding a boat can cause microscopic fracturing of the coating resulting in the boat loosing air over time. Welded seams are not advisable with polyester base fabrics.

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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
In industry a lot of CSM (hypalon) is used on the higher end stuff, (like high end rib boats). And a lot of my customers are moving more to TPO's ( mostly auto companies). I'm not involved at all in the inflatable boat and kayak industry. Most inflatable boats, and rv roofs, and car floor mats are done by sheet extrusion, (not my industry), though I try to help out with new material development for those industries, ( that's what I do). It's not my area of expertise, (my area is mostly injection molding). Can't really help much.
FE
Edit: It's my understanding Dupont exited the Hypalon (csm) market about 7 yrs ago, I don't know where current supplies come from. Perhaps their recent merger with Dow chemical will breath new light into the industry. My wagon is hitched to exxon/mobile more these days), and the big push that I'm seeing in the industry is TPO based, and enviornmental friendly high performance materials like our THRIVE plastics ( the greenest material available today), and combinations thereof. Basically nothin to do with inflatable boats, but I can deliver things like center consoles, and most interior and structural components in cars at half the current cost with 10-15% weight savings, (that's mostly what I do). Kayaking and sailing are my hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: Sidekicks purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:50 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 12565
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
But several Hobie reps are saying to toss an 8 year old and sometimes younger PVC inflatables into the recycle shredder.


To be clear... for an 8 year old boat, we simply will not repair here or cover under warranty. They can certainly try alternate repair methods.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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