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 Post subject: New Pelican Pedal Kayak
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:24 am 
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http://www.yakoutlaws.com/pelican-kayaks-new-kayaks-icast-2018/

Saw this article with a pict that resembles a Hobie pedal drive.

Anyone know more about this drive?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 am 
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Will be seen in public for the first time likely today at the ICAST demo day. We will know more soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Looks pretty similar. I would expect that out of a Chinese company but a Canadian one... maybe they figured out how to change it enough to skirt patent laws? Would hobie license that?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Damn, that’s pretty close. Patent run out?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Yea I think the original mirage drive patent may have ran it’s course, but Hobie has filed many patents since. Many revolving around the design of the fins, (which is the most important aspect). If you look at an original mirage drive, it kinda sucked, (designwise). Boy have they improved since then, ( all covered under subsequent patents). Lol now others can make all the sucky drives they want, All the goodies and improvements are still patented heavily.

The pedal action system itself is just simple mechanical design that can be done any of 50 ways from sunday. Being able to manufacture a strong, reliable, trouble free, cost effective design is what separates the men from the boys.
Hobies later patents on specific fin designs, were pretty clever.
Anyone can make the mechanical mechanism, but Hobie makes it very difficult to put any high efficiency fins on that drive.
So my opinion is we will start seeing some pedal drives coming out, some will be good, and some not so good. But likely most won’t have the durability and efficiency of Hobies stuff for a very long time.
It takes many years of experience to design the good stuff.
Me being a designer/ inventor all my life, I admire Hobie very much.
FE


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Hobie is awesomely engineered, but that looks way to similar I mean even the mounting pin looks the same. Are they able to make exact copies once a patent runs out?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Yes, once the patent expires (which the original did in 2017 if memory serves me right, I had a copy of it) anyone can duplicate it all they want. That effectively the deal you make with the government, you get a 20 year monopoly, but after that anyone can copy it.

I've been in product development, management and marketing my entire life. As part of my job, I also managed the companies' patent portfolios. From a business perspective, Hobie, did an amazing job of the timing of the 180 drive. They rolled that out around the time the original patent expired. They got enough people using and like reverse that now they think they are giving something up (which they are) if they go back to the original design.

I watched every video on this new kayak out of iCAST so far and everyone mentions it doesn't have reverse.

Hobie is good a engineering and product management.

Well done, Matt!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:06 pm 
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I can't take credit, but will for the company! THANKS! We really do have a great team and try very hard to make great products.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:11 pm 
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The funniest aspect about the whole situation is all the hobie bashers out there never had anything nice to say about pedal drives, now all of a sudden it’s all the rage.
Just giggling about it all that’s all.

One significant thing that I noticed about the pelican design is. They have almost the exact same injection molded drive pocket design that I proposed to Hobie 10yrs ago on this forum, (oops).
The reason I proposed it was because injection molding is 30x stronger than rotomolding. They were having serious issues with mirage pocket failures at the time. I proposed just a simple oval opening in the rotomolded hull, ( taking risk away from the hull). The injection molded pocket part is only $8 bucks of plastic, if it goes bad just replace it, (not the entire hull). I used Hobies own mirage drive holder in their inflatables as an example at the time.
Pelicans design for holding the drive in the boat is far and above superior to Hobies. This may become an issue. Just sayin.
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Thanks for the info. I have my TI so I’ll be set for a few years but it’s nice to know that Hobie won’t be resting on it laurels and will keep pushing the envelope to stay ahead of other companies.

Now if they would just bring over some of those small European dingy’s I saw on one of their euro websites....


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:55 am 
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The Hobie Project Team must be proud, the old MD was copied without being able to add any value that is not covered by patent, he product is simply a copy.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:59 am 
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Milton Quadros wrote:
The Hobie Project Team must be proud, the old MD was copied without being able to add any value that is not covered by patent, he product is simply a copy.


Image

full marks to Hobie for their outstanding products and the follow-up patents covering reversing, roller bearings, improved fins, and so on...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:27 pm 
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I posted a dupe like topic with some video

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 85#p306085

I hope that copies help to create a larger market. It's probably a good thing for Hobie. Let other companies operate at a lower price and quality point. When they graduate they will buy Hobie.

We might also get some non Hobie boat options that will accept the 180 drives.

Looking forward to innovations. I hope they don't fizzle out.


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