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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:24 pm 
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I guess short of buying the whole new spline assembly for $290, I'm screwed. You can buy the Hobie roller DRUM bearings 15 for ten cents. They appear to be the same material, but longer and smaller diameter.

I'm going to bring one of the non-damaged bearings in to work tomorrow and measure with calipers. I've spent a couple hours online today trying to find out where to buy something to act as a replacement. No luck yet.

When cleaning these bearings over the weekend, I noticed some are solid and some are tubes...very poor quality control. Even the tubular ones have varying inner diameters! I'll post pictures later. Oddly enough, it doesn't appear that the ones with holes are the ones that got squared off. Unless they originally had holes than closed up due to compression?

EDIT: The Drum bearings are much smaller diameter than the sprocket bearings.


Last edited by trojanchorse on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Weird. Hope its a common diameter and you can just pick up rod from a local plastic shop. Delrin or acetal is my guess.


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Doesn't look like you will get much help from Matt. Especially since he basically "chastised" you for taking it apart and trying to fix it yourself when you ignored his infinite wisdom of just spraying some lube on it...lol. So rather than help you and point you in the right direction he seems butt hurt and would rather just leave you out in the cold. Poor business model to be sure. As pounce so HELPFULLY suggested and as you stated if you could find the correct diameter you could search for Delrin rods to replace them. Amazon has them that might just work. Wouldn't think the length would be as important as the diameter. Let us know what you find out at work tomorrow as to correct size. I wouldn't mind ordering and making some spares myself based on the fact that it seems Hobie may not be willing to help out on this matter.


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Posts: 2907
Location: Escondido
jeffreydc wrote:
Doesn't look like you will get much help from Matt. Especially since he basically "chastised" you for taking it apart and trying to fix it yourself when you ignored his infinite wisdom of just spraying some lube on it...lol. So rather than help you and point you in the right direction he seems butt hurt and would rather just leave you out in the cold. Poor business model to be sure.
Inflamitory remarks like that are inappropriate here. If you think you have something positive to add, your opinions are welcome. Have the same courtesy to others who may actually know more than you think! If Hobie doesn't stock parts for an item they don't service there is a good opportunity to post a "How To" if you have an innovation to share. Everybody is working on the same side here. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Location: Australia
I'm assuming that Hobie doesn't have spares of these because they don't intend for people to be pulling the spine apart and frankly after having done it I can see why. However I do have a tip for anyone wanting to have a go. The tricky part is keeping the bearings in place as you reassemble the sprockets. I did it by using grease to hold them in place by lining the walls of the sprockets and placing the bearings into it. Pretty sure I used more grease than you'd normally want in there, but they seem to spit out excess grease through use pretty quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
jeffreydc wrote:
Doesn't look like you will get much help from Matt. Especially since he basically "chastised" you for taking it apart and trying to fix it yourself when you ignored his infinite wisdom of just spraying some lube on it...lol. So rather than help you and point you in the right direction he seems butt hurt and would rather just leave you out in the cold. Poor business model to be sure.
Inflamitory remarks like that are inappropriate here. If you think you have something positive to add, your opinions are welcome. Have the same courtesy to others who may actually know more than you think! If Hobie doesn't stock parts for an item they don't service there is a good opportunity to post a "How To" if you have an innovation to share. Everybody is working on the same side here. 8)


Really??? Who was more helpful in this situation? Myself or Matt? I offered help that ACTUALLY will lead to fixing the problem whereas Matt just blew him off and offered NOTHING in the way of help! Perhaps thats not what Matt intended to do but thats exactly how I read his post. Kind of sounded like he wanted to make us feel stupid for taking it apart and trying to fix it ourselves. Is that what this board is all about?


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:09 am 
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jeffreydc wrote:
Really??? Who was more helpful in this situation? Myself or Matt?
Really!!! You shared a great link and offered some first hand experience on fixing your problem -- very helpful! Matt shared a couple of potential fixes that work in many cases: 1. Lube a squeak -- great advise and it always works as long as you get the lube in the right place. Because you didn't know about it doesn't make it bad advise. Squeaks are not related to sand in the bearings, but friction between moving parts. 2. Rinse the Drive for sand -- usually works except when sand gets in the bearings (but not necessarily the case) -- clears chain and sprocket and other areas that are not greased. This is the best option for the 95% of the users (and most dealers) who do not have the capability to disassemble the Drive. This is Hobie SOP, nothing "butt hurting" or "chastising" about it. Ignoring this info can cause a lot of unnecessary expense and wasted time.

This isn't a contest to see who is the best helper. The OP had a problem, asked for help and applied the advice he got. His experience with your link was very helpful -- beyond the obvious, it exposed a potential for bearing wear that Hobie will want to look into, and makes a case for stocking bearing sets for MD 180s in the future (which Matt opened the possibility for if you carefully re-read what he actually said). For the topic of squeaks, this has been a very informative discussion and IMO, all the information and suggestions have been excellent contributions. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:07 am 
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I grabbed a few of the still round ones to measure today. Two of them have the holes I mentioned (tubes). One of the two has a full through hole and the hole only goes about one third the length of the other.

I'll measure later today.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:35 am 
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Measured a sample of four pieces with calibrated digital micrometer.
Diameter ranged from 0.2473" - 0.2497"
Length ranged from 0.4660" - 0.4775"

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Google showed me some options.

.25" acetal rod in black

https://www.eplastics.com/shapes/acetal ... BLKROD-250

https://www.amazon.com/Acetal-Copolymer ... B000FN15II


Wonder if the holes are by design or defects. I suppose a person could think the holes offer some reserve grease. A variety in the same handful makes me think defect.


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:37 pm 
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This is an informative article on plastic bearing materials http://www.craftechind.com/acetal-delri ... materials/

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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:42 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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jeffreydc wrote:
Doesn't look like you will get much help from Matt. Especially since he basically "chastised" you for taking it apart and trying to fix it yourself


Let's review...

mmiller wrote:
Lubrication.

Use the Hobie Lube or a light silicone spray up into the sprocket areas to get into the bearings. Alos at the drums and idler bearings.

roadrunner did a nice piece on drive maintenance awhile ago:

MirageDrive FAQ: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=60

Lubrication # 1 of 3: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=12577


mmiller wrote:
MD180 Drive? I'm not aware of a way to disassemble the 180 easily for lubrication due to the attached line systems running through it.

To clean a gritty drive we usually recommend cycling the drive in clean water to flush it out.


mmiller wrote:
We don't have the bearings as spare parts. The assumption has been that it is not something we would recommend taking apart, so have not yet stocked any. This is coming to us as an assembly from offshore, so no quick way to get these.


I may not have given the answer someone wanted, but I certainly did not chastise anyone.

When I have information that can help or get the bearings as spares... I will provide it.

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:39 am 
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mmiller wrote:

When I have information that can help or get the bearings as spares... I will provide it.


Any chance you can share the plastic type used for the bearings. Looks to me like the OP can easily makes some replacements. It would be nice to attempt replicating the plastic type in case there are some concerns about hardness and the plastic housing.


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Just ordered 36" of 0.25" diameter Acetal copolymer rod and some Super Lube. What is a good method of cutting the rod to length? I was thinking of using my Dremel tool and then filing/sanding the ends.

If I can get this sorted, I'm still not sure how to prevent reoccurrence. I use it in freshwater, saltwater and in brackish waters, but never from sandy beaches.


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 Post subject: Re: MD180 drive squeak
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
I'll ask engineering.

I am guessing the hollows are a molding issue. Not sure it is a defect, but can they compress under load to start the flattening? Or is the lubrication more critical to prevent the wear?

Understand that we cycle tested these things in gritty water for tens of thousands of cycles.

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Hobie Cat USA


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