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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:20 am
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Location: New Brighton, PA
So, after another disappointing day sailing my under performing Tank 2, even with added boom and gennaker, I'm trying to justify this piece of plastic I have in my possession. No way to recoup my money out of it, maybe half, who wants a slow boat Hobie dropped?
I do have a new 16 main sail with boom and battens sitting in my garage. Looking at it when I got home got me thinking that's the next step. I do believe it's a bit longer and was just thinking of adding some reefing grommets to tie it off on the boom but then I got to wondering if I should have the top cut off?
Reefing I could do myself but I would have a sail loft recut the top for me.

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18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:29 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
Sounds like throwing good money after bad and just adding more complications to something that already isn't working well for you. I highly doubt modifying a (45 year old design) Hobie 16 sail to work on your T2 is going to get you the performance you're after. Altering a pin head sail to a square top is unlikely to work and will probably leave you with a boat you don't like AND a junked sail.

If you aren't satisfied with the T2, your best bet is probably to just bite the bullet, sell the boat, and replace it with one that better suits your needs.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:22 am 
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curious about what your complaint is on performance. my T2 is faster than my 14 (non-turbo) was. I regularly clock speeds on my gps in the upper teens (MPH) and have even cracked the 20 mark. I know the boat is a lot heavier than the fiberglass ones and will be slower than a 16 for sure... but for what it is, I've thought performance was dang good as long as there's a nice breeze.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:16 pm 
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I would like to hear more about specific complaints as well. I was out yesterday on my T2 in moderate (8-10 knots) of wind and thought it performed well - darn fun actually.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:20 am
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Location: New Brighton, PA
I was out in 8-14mph yesterday too, I'm 210lbs and sail solo. This boat will barely lift a hull out of the water and is no faster than a Getaway. I knew when I stepped down from the 16 it wouldn't be the same but figured with the sleek lines and top sail it would be better than it is. I don't really care how fast it is but I do love to sail on the edge of tipping over even if I'm only moving 5mph but this boat wont do it unless the wind is over 15mph. And that's just sitting on the boat, not trying to trap out.
I really like the look of the boat and I wanted plastic because of all the rocky shorelines we have. It's just under powered in all aspects. Like they built a Ferrari and power with a Pinto motor. I put 4 telltails on each side and use draft gauges on my battens to get a nice pocket, I get nice even flow across the complete sail or can move it up or down. The Genniker works better the jib so I started leaving the jib furled, this weekend I plan to move it's sheet inward to the jib blocks
Even if the design of the 16 sail is old, it has a lot more sq feet and better tuning ability for how I want to sail, I think the boat would perform as well if not better than the 16 at that point.
I'm a Fabricator/Technician so I have to try something to make it better, I can't just walk away, it's not in me. Thinking more about it today, I plan to see if the getaway mast base will fit the 16 mast (I think they are the same, the T2 is) and install it on my 16 mast. Then all I need to do is rework the shroud and forestay to fit the T2. I won't have to modify the sail and I have lots of cable and swage.

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18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 467
Location: Rockford, IL
So what you're saying is not that the boat is slow, but that it's not tender? I had a Hobie 17, and it is a heavy wind boat...I would run away from 16s in 20+ knot winds as they kept flopping over, and my 17 windward hull was just skimming the water. I could fly a hull on that boat by way overtrimming the sail, but it sure wasn't the fastest when I did that.
So putting a flat top sail might give you what you want by raising the center of effort, or putting up a taller mast doing the same thing. But the newer boats and the roto boats just aren't as tender as the 16. I have flown a hull on my Getaway only a couple of times, and not for long.

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"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:08 pm 
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We all have different sailing experience and expectations and that will drive what we hope to get out of our boats. I applaud your efforts to change the boat more to your liking and I am enjoying reading about your efforts. I hope you figure it out. My only wish would be that you soften your tone about the boat itself. For one, you are potentially reducing the market if you ever do decide to sell it. Also, I personally think the T2 is an excellent example of what can be done with rotomolded plastic and modern catamaran design and I wish Hobie would bring the boat back in the US. I'm sure they didn't throw the molds in the trash so who knows, if those of us who own one spread the good word, maybe it will come back if demand is there. Selfishly, that helps us all for parts access, improvements, accessories, fleets, etc. So for the record, the T2 IS AN EXCELLENT SAILBOAT, way more powerful than a Wave, cheaper and sportier than a Getaway, and far less expensive and more durable than a H16. Everyone needs to get on the roto bandwagon and demand Hobie to build you a new T2! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:33 am
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Location: Erie on Lake Erie, PA
I'd have to agree with Mistro. I greatly prefer the T2 over the Wave even though I can't take it out solo in as-heavy winds as the Wave could handle (it has almost double the 95 sq ft sail area as the Wave and maybe just 15 sq ft less sail area than the H16; and about the same weight and sail area as the Getaway). It feels way more stable at high speeds than the Wave did, is way less prone to taking a dive, and for me it works great in winds above 10 mph - 12-18 seems to be the most-manageable sweet spot. I think it's better than the Wave in light breezes too. I haven't needed the trapeze yet, as I have 190 lb of counter-force for the sails, and that's fine as winds locally fluctuate enough over minutes that trapezing would be too much on/off work! If I was 15 lbs lighter, I think it would be an even better boat for me! Being a former mono-huller, I believe flat is fast and prefer cruising faster near-flat than being precariously balanced moving at a slower speed (i.e., sitting/hiking out is fine for me). I can almost keep pace with older H16s - maybe that's 80%, but I haven't done enough comparisons. The T2 is also faster than all the local recreational monohulls I see of the same size around here, and is well able to outpace the gin-and-tonic brigade on the day cruisers. And even though the US now has T2s only as a special-order item, I've seen enough of them (as Tatoos) in Ireland and France for almost a decade to realize that it's a good design whose more "high-performance" look may have scared off the families who typically buy (or rent at resort) the Getaway in the US market. It's big and heavy but never got the party-boat pitch that the Getaway still gets in the US, so it had to rely on drawing solos and pairs and racers away from fiberglass cats for sales - a challenge! Anyway, long live the T2/Tatoo!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:58 am 
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just had the best weekend of sailing ever on my T2. It was awesome. didn't pay too close attention to wind speeds, but it was calling for 15-17mph and had larger gusts, but not too gusty. We were out flying hulls while double trapped. It was an absolute blast. We had a beach party so i spent my entire day saturday just taking friends for laps up and down the coast. EVERYONE had a blast and raved about how fun it was, novice or not. even was able to fly a hull with 3 people and no traps. After everyone left Sunday and the winds had died down I went out solo. The boat was just too over powered still for the winds. I was flying a hull with my jib furled and pinching as close to the wind as I dared so I called it a weekend and headed back in. Great times on Lake Superior winds!

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2014 T2
past: 1974 H14


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:20 am
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Location: New Brighton, PA
OK, for one, the T2 is the nicest boat Hobie has built to this day. It's even sexy. Just look at it, except for the rear cross bar, it's completely symmetrical until you add the tramp mounts and the lines are just gorgeous. She cuts through the water like a knife with hardly any sound. It appears to be well build and strong. She's christened 'Silent Lady' and no, I would never hit her with the bottle, I just spray the champagne all over and ask Neptune to bless our travels.
But no way does it perform as well as it should, it's not the boat, it's the product Hobie gave us. I do think it had something to do with cutting into the 16 race market. Am I going to curb my conversation in hopes Hobie brings it back or hurting my resale value? Heck no, after 18 years of Hobie sailing, 3 14Ts, 6 16s, one new, a Bravo and a Getaway, restoring and tuning boats for others, working at the locale dealership for boat set up and deliveries, I'll speak my mind I don't claim to know it all but a little criticism isn't going to hurt and may just make this an even better boat. When I'm out with 8 other boats and 7 are flying hulls back and forth across the water while the T2 and a Getaway are flat footed, just getting a little more than 1/2 way across before the other boats are coming back, that sucks. And your are on this machine, that you know in your heart, is so much better than what the manufacture put out, it's very disappointing to me. One the other hand, this is the most conversation about the T2 I've read since it was introduced and it's because I'm not happy with what I have, so let's keep it going.

Yes, it is more like a 17, I can't solo trap in less than 15mph, 20 is better. I'd rather dump wind than not be able to catch it.

If you're moving up from the Wave, than yes, this is a faster, funner boat. It's nice to hear others are enjoying their boats

So here's where I'm at, I ordered the mast base for a Getaway and will have it sometime next week. Tomorrow night I will compare the shrouds and forestay to see what might need adjusted. They have a mast lift at the lake I can use to hold it steady for my final setup. I have the 16 comp tip mast and a new intensity sail main that I'll try out.

This years stripe
Image

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18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Yes, this is great to have some discussion about the boat, so let's definitely keep it going. I am looking forward to hearing how it goes with the H16 rig.

I had two recent experiences on my boat that I figured I would share.

First, last Thursday I took my boat out solo in a small harbor in very strong wind and it was the most frightening experience I've had on a sailboat. I was up on one hull and doing double digit speeds before I was 10 feet from the dock. It was like trying to tame a wild beast, at least for me, in that harbor with other boats and not much room. It was blowing at least 20 and I could not keep the hull down and my mainsheet kept cleating when I didn't want it to. It was my first time in those conditions on that boat and I was over powered. Anyway, I weigh 200 and I simply do not believe the statement that this boat won't lift a hull. I came away from that experience quite intimidated by my T2.

Second, I went out the following day in a larger bay with a little less wind and had easily the best day of sailing I can recall. I could hit 20MPH on a broad reach on the trapeze and was blowing past Getaways (of course they had more people on board but who's counting). I was impressed with the modern rig. I was generating so much apparent wind my sails were in tight going down wind and it was an absolute blast. Up wind I could fly a hull if I wanted but if felt slow and hard to control (probably my inexperience with the boat). My only complaint is that I could not point as high as I think the boat should so I will be raking the mast back one hole to see if it helps. I came away from that experience in love with my boat.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:38 am 
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mistro wrote:
my mainsheet kept cleating when I didn't want it to.


Have you tried adjusting the cleat angle yet? if so, maybe a little more adjustment is necessary, if not, it's an easy fix! I did it my first season with the boat as the same thing almost caused a capsize for me. I have mine set so I very intentionally have to cleat the main.

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2014 T2
past: 1974 H14


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:55 am 
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coreboarder wrote:
mistro wrote:
my mainsheet kept cleating when I didn't want it to.


Have you tried adjusting the cleat angle yet? if so, maybe a little more adjustment is necessary, if not, it's an easy fix! I did it my first season with the boat as the same thing almost caused a capsize for me. I have mine set so I very intentionally have to cleat the main.


Yes, I moved it up one notch so hopefully it will be better next time out. Very frustrating trying to uncleat the sheet as the boat is tipping over!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:57 am 
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buxton wrote:

This years stripe
Image


Forgot to mention, your boat looks fantastic! Any advice on where to get decals (for the registration numbers and boat name) that will actually stick to the T2 hulls? I lost most of my reg numbers last time out. I need something that will stick to the slippery plastic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:33 am
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Location: Erie on Lake Erie, PA
Thinking some more on optimal T2 efficiency .....
I'm realizing that, when sailing solo, I'd recently been forgetting some sailing-physics principles! I think The T2 is very sensitive to the location of the driver's weight, particularly in lighter winds. Being a former Wave sailor (no tiller stick), I had an early tendency to sit far back on the T2 hull most of the time and not use the stick, even in conditions when winds were light. I'm now realizing that's not a good idea for the T2, and now use the tiller stick whenever the wind is below ~12 mph in order to stay forward and stop the stern digging. Yesterday, with winds of 8-10mph, I was sitting at the tramp's trapeze holes, and the boat sailed faster because the stern wasn't digging as much. I think this is an important consideration for T2 sailors, becoming more important the lighter the winds are and heavier you are. If you have a crew, and you keep them well forward, that has a similar balancing effect. It's the sailor's equivalent to getting a speedboat up on plane!


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