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 Post subject: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:53 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:37 am
Posts: 1
I have.a few brief questions after recently starting Hobie 18 sailing. I've seen other posts about diamond wire tension and feel like I understand when and why to tighten/loosen. With the traditional setup, having the wires tight to keep the mast straight, how tight should they be normally? Should I be able to move them a lot or should they be very stiff? Id just like some sort of reference point since I don't have any tools to measure tension. Another thing I've been struggling with is locking the mainsail. Even after trying seemingly everything I just really have a lot of trouble with it and often can't get it to lock. Is the old flapper the piece above the hook that flips up? I wasn't planning on removing it but if that would.make my life easier them I'm wondering if I should. Lastly a few general sailing questions. When I'm on a beam reach and a gust picks up, should I steer towards the with to maintain control? If the gust dies and I want to maintain speed should I fall off slightly? I've just been trying to get used to the small adjustments needed in sail trim and whatnot that's all

Thanks a bunch!


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:22 am
Posts: 42
Just some general information. The diamond wires are on the mast and they should be tight (as in not lose). They are related to how much crew weight you have and how much power you need from the sail. The wires that hold up the mast should be a little tight so the rig is secure if you capsize, but not so tight that the mast will not rotate well when going down wind.
As far as steering in puffs etc. Do what you need to not turn over. Go up or let the sail out, they both work. If you are racing, it becomes a tactical decision. Do you want to go higher in order to make a mark easier? Let the boat go p so you make better distance to weather. If you do not need to go up, then you will go faster by letting out the sail and holding your course.
One other item to pay attention to is your jib halyard tension. This is not like a Hobie 16. You do not want a tight halyard at the forestay when rigging your sail. Just take out the wrinkles. The forestay will tighten when you pull in the mainsheet. If you have the jib halyard too tight when rigging it up initially, you can break it when you sheet in with the main sheet.
Now have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 11
Regarding raising the mainsail, I have some suggestions. Make sure your halyard rope isn't too stretchy. Make sure that the sail bolt rope is fully engaged in the mast track. I usually gently push the second batten pocket plastic end cap up while I'm simultaneously pulling on the halyard during the last bit of raising the main. If the sail can slide easily in the mast track you can "feel" the halyard ring touch the bottom of the retainer. It will add resistance to your pulling on the halyard and sometimes you can hear the metal to metal contact. Gently continue to pull on the halyard and you will feel/hear the ring pass the retainer. If you pull too hard it will pass the lever too, so try and go slowly at that point. While keeping tension on the halyard rotate the mast clockwise by pulling on the mast rotation lever. Keep the rotation pressure on while you release the halyard and usually the ring stays in the retainer. Releasing the sail is the opposite. Yank hard on the halyard with no mast rotation. You should hear (and feel) the mast head ring clang out of the hook and over the lever. The sail should easily lower at that point. I've had good success using an "aussie style" ring (Murray's Hobie Aussie Ring (#07-3064)).

We've all had to develop a feel to do this so don't get discouraged.

_________________
Jim

H16 20645 Blue Streak
H18 930 Blue Streak
H18 3385 Carumba
H18 ???? Blue Hawaii
H18 12497 Blue Hawaii


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 983
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
1. Remove the flapper thing, it serves no real purpose.
2. Clean the sail track well, then lubricate the bolt rope and track with silicone. Lubricate every couple of weeks, in season.
3. Always rig the main pointing into the wind.
4. Raise the main all the way, rotate the mast clockwise, and release the halyard, you will both hear it and feel it.
now
5. In a puff, you can do either....we usually go higher to make the mark, BUT if this is a strong puff, and we feel unstable, we will sheet out the main a touch.
6. Diamond wires - very loose is where you can push in both wires at the lowest point, and both wires will touch the mast up to about 36" above the base. We have never run them that loose. We run them snug or firm, but not super-tight, and then we leave them as we use other adjustments, such as mast rotation.
7. Jib tension - On a calm day, raise your jib, but don't secure it too snug. Then raise your main and sheet it in as tight as you can. This will force the jib stay to it's maximum tension. Now you can 'set' the tension of the jib without pulling out the head of the jib. (don't ask how I know this).
8. Consider installing a 5:1 downhaul, it is so much faster and easier to use than the 3:1 stock system.
9. While not as sensitive as an H16, watch your fore-aft trim. Upwind in light to mid conditions, we are as far forward as we can go. With more chop and in heavy winds, we are at mid point. We only go to the back of the boat when running in high wind.
10. Please check the condition of the shroud anchor bolts, racers will renew every year or 18 months, everyone should check them at least twice a year. Check the Forum for threads on the danger.........
11. Go out and have fun on arguable the best catamaran ever built.

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:06 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi sesaero,

When on a beam reach or going downwind and a gust hits, you should pull away and release some mainsheet. You should pulll away just before the gust hits (anticipate the gust by watching 3/4 over your shoulder). When the gust eases, you should point up slightly and trim in slightly again. Beam reach and downwind is the opposite to upwind sailing.

The diamond wires should not be firm or tight. When you push the two wires towards the mast with moderate hand pressure they should be able to touch the mast (evenly) about 12” above the diamond wire anchor point. Set and forget.

To help latch and release the sail:
- make sure the rig tension is loose, not firm.
- make sure the boat is head to wind.
- release the boom off the sail.
- trim the top 1” (2.5cm) of boltrope off the head of the sail. Use a hot knife to remove this. It provides no strength to the sail as the headboard takes all the load at this point. By removing this piece it will allow the sail to go up higher when hoisting on and off the hook.

Feel free to view my boats own Facebook page. It has dozens of photos with tips and tricks shown in various photo albums. Many photos have comments next to them with advice.

https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/

We use an 8:1 mainsail downhaul system to help the crew de-power the mainsail as the wind increases. Once you are on trapeze, start pulling the wrinkles out of the mainsail. This will help control the boat and allow you to pull more mainsheet tension on. The more the wind blows, the more the crew pulls the downhaul on, the more the skipper pulls the mainsheet on, the faster and more controlled you go. Over 15 knots of wind with two on trapeze you should pull the downhaul as hard as you can.

If you look at the videos on my boats FB page there is a great example of the acceleration you get when the downhaul is pulled on to the max. Watch the video called “Saturday 2nd December 2017”. At 0:48 in the video the downhaul is pulled one last time and the boat accelerates so much the crew floats backwards due to the acceleration. From that point onwards the mainsail can be sheeted tight and the boat points much higher and goes much faster than the other boats. Note: this is a highly competitive fleet of Aussie H18’s.

There are lots of other videos also with starts, tacks and gybes for your learning and viewing pleasure. Enjoy.

John Forbes
H18 sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart

_________________
John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 983
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
John Forbes, g'day mate, excellent videos and great advice.

Perhaps it is the video perspective, but I was wondering if the AUS H18 is the same as the North American version.
Where are your jib blocks? Looks to me like you have a Tornado style jib cleat.
What sheet is the crew holding?
What is that large block in the centre of the tramp? for a spin?

Time to browse around your Facebook page some more.....
and for real performance, check out the I-14 Worlds currently underway in San Francisco.
Video
[/url]https://vrsport.tv/vr-media/international-14-world-champs-2018-day-three-race-two/[url]



Thanks,

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:06 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Sydney, Australia
John Lunn wrote:
John Forbes, g'day mate, excellent videos and great advice.

Perhaps it is the video perspective, but I was wondering if the AUS H18 is the same as the North American version.
Where are your jib blocks? Looks to me like you have a Tornado style jib cleat.
What sheet is the crew holding?
What is that large block in the centre of the tramp? for a spin?

Time to browse around your Facebook page some more.....
and for real performance, check out the I-14 Worlds currently underway in San Francisco.
Video
[/url]https://vrsport.tv/vr-media/international-14-world-champs-2018-day-three-race-two/[url]



Thanks,



Hi John Lunn,

Yes I run the Tornado style jib blocks on the trampoline. For two reasons: so both skipper and crew stop smashing knees and bum on the track, car and block on the inner gunwale and; to remove the stainless steel track from the alloy track to stop corrosion. It also looks much neater. It is also easier to operate for the crew. There are lots of photos of the system on my page showing all the reasons why and how to do it.

In the video, the red line is our 8:1 mainsail downhaul tension; pulled hard as possible in 15+ knots. The grey line is the jib sheet. In the Saturday 2nd December 2017 video it was my daughters second time ever racing or seriously sailing thus she struggled a bit to get out on the trapeze in 18 knots in our first race of the regatta. We think it’s funny.

Enjoy all the albums on the Facebook page. They are for everyone to see.

John Forbes

_________________
John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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 Post subject: Re: New Sailor Questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:33 am 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 537
Location: Buffalo, NY
Many of your questions have been answered above, so I won't repeat what's already been suggested, but regarding diamond wire tension, there is a way to measure it. If you try to press the diamond wires together with moderate pressure, they should be able to touch the sides of the mast at 12", 24" or 36" up from the base of the diamond wires. In light winds, heavy chop and/or with heavy crew, 12" is the target, and in heavy winds, light crew and/or flat water, 36" is the target.

What your diamond wire tension does is control the mast bend in the lower 2/3rds of your mast when you rotate the mast more (more tension = less bend). The more your mast bends, the flatter your mainsail gets, which reduces the lift (but also reduces the drag). In heavier winds or with lighter crews, you don't need as much power, so reducing the lift in the sail and eliminating some of the excess drag actually allows you to go faster.

I also don't mind the flapper, but it can cause problems if it's not used properly or if it gets bent. The trick to using it is that you don't want to bring the sail all the way up to the top of the mast when hoisting it. You bring the ring up just past the hook, and then let it settle onto the hook. The flapper is designed so that anytime the ring goes all the way to the top of the mast, the flapper flops down to cover the hook and prevent it from hooking the ring. That way to bring the sail down, you just have to tug on the halyard, bring the ring all the way to the top, and let it come down. Without the flapper, you just need to rotate the mast to the side so the ring doesn't catch on the hook when you're trying to lower it.

_________________
Mike
Image
'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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