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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:22 pm 
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John Forbes wrote:
- remove the word “Additional” from the jib cleat rule.


It is my understanding that the Australia guys are arguing about being able to effectively inhaul the jib sheeting point. By definition isnt the "cleat" just what holds the sheet tension, not the actual sheeting point? Not sure if we were trying to allow the jib car/block itself to be moved inboard off a tramp grommet or if people actually want to be able to cleat off the jib sheet somewhere else on the boat?

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'85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
'86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
Kaos - that was very illuminating, thanks for sharing! I didn't get my H18 until 2012, well after Hobie discontinued them. srm, I didn't mean to side track the thread, my apologies.

John, I agree with you on the rules that need re-interpreting, but I agree with srm that if you start allowing things like non-OEM daggers, rudders and sails, you could easily get into a messy situation with "psuedo" legal sails etc. I do particularly like your suggestion of an A fleet and B fleet, though I'm not sure many boats would be available for the A fleet... and you're splitting up the fleet. Maybe score them as an A fleet and a B fleet, but have them race together on the same starting line?

Personally, I don't even care if I'm scored, I just like rounding the marks with the other boats! :lol:

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:26 am 
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For further clarification, in Australia the price for my genuine Hobie mainsail (sail #490 in the photos) was A$2590 and A$1075 for the genuine Hobie jib. All up is A$3665. This did not include battens.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:33 am 
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With the A and B fleet idea: the intention was to start and race all boats together. One start, two result sheets. Only boats in A fleet can win the trophy and be crowned State or National Champion. Those in B fleet just want to participate, have fun and race in a big fleet and not worried about winning trophies.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:15 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
In Australia:
- some boats are Class legal except for their rudders
- some boats are Class legal except for their dagger boards
- some boats are Class legal except for their trampoline
- some boats are Class legal except for their 8:1 mainsheet
- some boats are Class legal except for 2, 3 or all of the above items
- only one (or two) boats are Class legal except for their sails

As mentioned in a prior post in this thread, the horse has bolted long ago and trying to reign it in in a fair and equitable manner for all teams currently sailing is the challenge. Trying to update the class rules to capture the current situation down under without affecting the rest of the world is also part of that challenge.

Personally I’m sailing a 21st century Hobie 18 and it’s a beautiful, fun, easy, pretty, loud, but most importantly pleasurable boat to sail with my daughter.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:10 am 
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Location: Chilliwack, BC
HI All
Great discussion....
here's my $0.02
The Formula 18 (apparently also affectionately known as the Mutant SX) was a stock 18 with the SX mast/ Mylar sails... no wings, no kite.... Not sure why, but was made for a few years. I actually had a boat recently that was a Formula 18 (not F18) that was from the H18 NA's in Erie, PA, 1989....

We have a large and growing fleet of H18's up in the Pacific North West, and also through Div 2/3 in California. Apparently the fleet is also growing in the Florida area. We are working towards a resurgence of the class with recent NA's having attendance of 15-20 boats. This years (2019) H18 NA's i expect will be near Tulsa OK....

RE: Class rules.... I agree that we should abide by the class rules as laid out especially if it is an item that affects the performance of the boat. Tramps to not, sails/ foils do.... maybe worth a solid discussion with a presentation the the IHCA rules committee? Just a thought....

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Any idea of dates for 18 Nationals in OK? May have to drag a group up to that event.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
Kaos wrote:
Any idea of dates for 18 Nationals in OK? May have to drag a group up to that event.

Cheers

October 7-11, Keystone Lake, OK (about 20 miles west of Tulsa)

NOR will be released soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:15 am 
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Location: Australia
TAMUmpower wrote:
John Forbes wrote:
- remove the word “Additional” from the jib cleat rule.


It is my understanding that the Australia guys are arguing about being able to effectively inhaul the jib sheeting point. By definition isnt the "cleat" just what holds the sheet tension, not the actual sheeting point? Not sure if we were trying to allow the jib car/block itself to be moved inboard off a tramp grommet or if people actually want to be able to cleat off the jib sheet somewhere else on the boat?


Correct... Moving the jib block position inboard

I heard there was some sandbagging so the "modified" boats were NOT winning every race but that may be incorrect... John Forbes might be able to tell us more about that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:09 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi Rushman and others,

I have never heard or seen anyone “sandbagging”. It’s also the first time of heard of such a claim. Whoever said that is not being constructive to the greater good of the H18 class.

I’m happy to talk to anyone about my boat, the current boats, the rule suggestions or anything else Hobie 18 related as I would like to see the H18 Class continue to grow in Australia and see similar revitalisation around the world. My phone number is 0418267755. If dialling from outside Australia my number is +61 418267755.

I am willing to share all my ideas, all of which can be seen on my boats own Facebook page in the many photo albums I have created. Link is below.

As previously mentioned, every update to my boat is purely to make it nicer to sail and more easy and pleasurable for the crew. If it’s easy to sail a H18, people will start sailing again and we can attract the youth and women. If it’s outdated, clunky and hard to sail then former sailors, women and youth will not return or participate.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:18 am 
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Guys and Gals,
Below is the verbatim response I got from IHCA when I asked to update the H18 rules to allow:
- 8:1 mainsheet (as per H18 Formula rule wording)
- non genuine tramps (but as per current IHCA rule wording in all other respects)
- non genuine rudders (but must meet current IHCA templates)
- non genuine dagger boards (but must meet current IHCA templates)
- remove the word “Additional” from H18 Rule 5.6
- remove the word “Additional” from H18 Rule 5.7

My daughter and I still love sailing our 21st century Hobie 18 Reimagined but will be unable to compete in the once a year Hobie sanctioned event.

Regards,
John Forbes

===============================================================
19 March 2019

Dear Mr. John Forbes,

Once again thank you for your proposals. We of course welcome all ideas and initiatives to get more sailors out racing. However, we are not convinced the rule changes you are proposing will meet the objective and is the right way to go. As a result of our screening and the discussions within the IHCA Rules Committee, with the manufacturer and trademark holder, the IHCA Rules Committee hereby inform you that none of your proposals will be processed further. This for the following reasons:
• Support to the proposals by a National/Regional Association of the IHCA has not been presented, wherefore the proposals are not found to have enough merit/justification i.a.w. with normal IHCA Rules Committee policy for major/controversial change proposals.
• Isolated AUS problem and about a very few class members.
• The majority of active AUS HC18 class members appear happy with the clarifications etc. made last fall.
• The consensus policy between the class and the manufacturers as required by World Sailing (WS) for accepting a change proposal for our WS international classes is applied by the Rules Committee for all IHCA classes when screening change proposals for further processing. The manufacturers have indicated they are opposed to your proposals.
• Starting to change class rules to oblige owners, who with open eyes and for one or the other reason have modified their boats to a non-class legal status, is not considered a healthy class rule strategy for any of our classes.

Thank you for your support of Hobie racing.

On behalf of the IHCA Rules Committee respectfully submitted
Erik Olsen Chairman
19 MAR 2019
www.hobieclass.com
==========================================================

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:05 am 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
How uninspired :roll: :roll: :roll:

Translation: "We'd rather see the class die out than change our rules to keep people engaged and active in the dwindling Hobie 18 fleet."

It's that same attitude that is resulting in more and more sailors to abandon Hobie altogether for more welcoming classes.

In the midwest, the Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan (CRAM) has long since been the favored (if not only) catamaran racing fleet to actually grow in members in the last two decades. They have eschewed Hobie's "our way or the highway" attitude in favor of inclusivity. "Don't have Hobie sails? No comptip mast? We don't care, just happy to have more boats on the water!" The official Hobie fleets in WNY, OH, MI, WI have all but vanished, or stopped racing completely. CRAM is one of the only groups actually approaching the sport in the right way.

Hobie tried to chase out and exclude the F18's from any Hobie sanctioned events years ago, and when more and more of the serious Hobie sailors moved to F18's, Hobie started to lose their stranglehold on the catamaran sailing community. Now the F18 community has little interest in participating in Hobie events, and for good reason.

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Maybe CRAM should hold the Hobie 18 Nationals and get lots of boats? :D

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
Interesting topic guys. I'm part of CRAM and currently own an '88 H18 and '10 F18 (C2).

As to where all the H18 sailors went, I know of at least a few that moved to F18. The spinnaker can be a very seductive temptress.

With regard to CRAM's open philosophy, it has always been inviting, but wasn't always as much so as it is today. When I first showed up with my barn-find $500 H18, I definitely got some elitest vibes. Perhaps I was simply insecure being the new guy with the $500 boat, but I was the only one... Everyone else had there sparkling I20 or F18 or F17 A-Cat or... Fortunately I stuck it out and really engaged with the people who were very welcoming.

I can remember a meeting back in 2011 or 2012 where we had a long discussion on the topic of the club's future. With a handful of good (but older) sailors at the top and not that much fresh blood, we saw the writing on the wall. We decided the only way to survive in the long-term was to rebuild the base by welcoming anything and everything with open arms. We did outreach on Hobie forums, we did mass mailing, posters at yacht clubs and marinas, and then finally social media took off.

I'd love to say this was all 100% a calculated success. The truth is that we had a family that showed up one day with a couple backyard H16s and then a few weeks later brought a couple more. Within a year or two, we had 6-8 H16s showing up regularly and its slowly expanded since then. Later some of these guys started upgrading to the more technical boats while additional guys backfilled on the H16s.

With regard to class legal sailing, a funny thing happened. Some of the better guys started to care a bit more about the results and upgraded their boats. This year, for the first time in many many years we have two HCA class legal events on our calendar. So now we are scoring class legal and 'open' H16 separately for those that want to compete at a higher level.

The biggest key to all of this though is communication and getting an exciting message of fun and inclusion out to the masses. Its partly marketing, but mostly its authentically living and promoting the Hobie lifestyle.

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'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
cramsailing.com


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:14 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Thanks Jeff Rehmbo
A great insight.
Well done.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 Reimagined
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
http://www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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