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Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
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Author:  Darind514 [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
I am sick of the usual rudder problems...My boat is a 1979 H18. The rudders DO NOT kick up no matter how much force is applied to the leading edge. When I go to lift the crossbar and release them manually, they required A LOT of pressure to release and pop up. I have lubed them with Silicone Grease on a weekly basis before sailing, and the problem does not seem to be getting better. My plastic spring tension screws are almost falling out they are so loose...doesn't matter. Please help.

I assume I need to file down some areas in the rudder casting, but I can't figure out where to start.

Thanks for the help.
Author:  jim-doty [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
mmiller wrote:
Be sure the pin can rotate freely. File off any indentation on the casting where the pin rests when sailing. Beaching causes a small ding / depression in the aluminum and can hold the pin from rolling up and out of the cam.
Author:  Darind514 [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
What pin am I looking at? Do I need to take the casting apart to do this?
Author:  srm [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
nedrierson78 wrote:
What pin am I looking at? Do I need to take the casting apart to do this?


No disassembly required. The "pin" is the roller/pin in the upper casting which engages the hook in the lower casting. Make sure the pin can rotate freely and make sure it is greased. Try to keep sand out of the assembly as much as possible.

sm
Author:  Rojoyinc [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
I've heard that the 18 had a major rudder update at some point and it was a "must" to add to a older boat. What was this change and what rudder system do you have?

(I thought it was the change to the plastic cams) but I have a 2000 and a older 81 here and both have plastic cams? So I'm not sure.
Author:  srm [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
If your boat has plastic rudder cams (and the adjustable rake feature), then you have the upgraded system. The original system had a metal "hook" that engaged the upper casting and did not have rake adjustment feature. I would not say that the upgrade is a "must do", but the newer system has more dependable kick up. The old system can be made to work ok, but it takes more tweaking and requires more maintenance.

sm
Author:  damon [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
srm wrote:
If your boat has plastic rudder cams (and the adjustable rake feature), then you have the upgraded system. The original system had a metal "hook" that engaged the upper casting and did not have rake adjustment feature. I would not say that the upgrade is a "must do", but the newer system has more dependable kick up. The old system can be made to work ok, but it takes more tweaking and requires more maintenance.

sm

Yes, I guess nothing is a "must do" (maybe "should do") but after what I went through with my 1981 H18, multiple broken castings and then a torn out transom, I finally did the expensive upgrade and loved it. Luckily my 1992 system works great.

My opinion is that if you have the metal cam system you should treat it like you have a non-kickup system and never expect it to kickup from impact, even when you are actively yanking on it with all your might while sailing in through the surf. :evil: You really never know when it will kickup and when it won't. The system was probably fine as invented, but it's one of those "if we have known the boats would last so long..." after 20-30 years the system isn't so hot.

Image
Author:  Darind514 [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
I have the metal cam system. No doubt.

I've looked into the upgrade, and it seems too spendy for my taste.

HOW do I make the metal cams work? Do I need to replace them? Can they even be ordered anymore? Should I search for a couple from a used parts boat?

I'm honestly not too worried about kick-up. I sail on an inland freshwater lake and it's not an issue. Kick up would be nice, but not needed. BUT, I want to be able to lift the damn things without tearing off the end of the boat. Damn they are a PITA now to lift, starboard in particular.

Can I take the metal cam out and "file" it down? Or can this be done without removal?

Thanks for the tips. Will try to post pics tmrw.
Author:  Darind514 [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
I found this write-up about making a pull line that will release the cams, but it seems a bit "busy" for me. Hope somebody can tell me how to repair the metal cams...

http://www.thebeachcats.com/news/38/qui ... 8-rudders/
Author:  [email protected] [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
Neat, real simple. I too have had bouts of trying to get the rudder unhooked
Author:  srm [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
Relevant post, there have been several...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5736

I have used the old system successfully for many years. Some tricks...lubricate the roller/pin using bearing grease (or other lubrication that won't wash away). Back off the cam spring almost all the way, so the tiller arm can be easily lifted up by hand. Use bungee cord wrapped around rudder/rudder pin to hold the rudder down (there are "flanged" washers that can be purchased to help hold the bungee in position).

sm
Author:  Skipshot [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
My unsolicited advice is to make your rudder system work through this forum, but if you happen upon a used new system then get it; if the price is right. The new rudder system is the same as the 17, 20, and I believe the Wave and Getaway.
Author:  mmiller [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
jim-doty wrote:
mmiller wrote:
Be sure the pin can rotate freely. File off any indentation on the casting where the pin rests when sailing. Beaching causes a small ding / depression in the aluminum and can hold the pin from rolling up and out of the cam.


Image

File flat so the pin can easily roll.

Best to pull rudders up before hitting the beach.
Author:  Darind514 [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
Thanks Matt. Will do today and see if that helps. I'm also going to try the "lube the hell" out of it tip.

Thank you all for your replies.
Author:  Darind514 [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rudder kick up problems. The usual. Please help
So I ground the alum cam down so it operates smooth. I noticed when comparing starboard to port that the port one was much easier to move. The starboard one (the rudder I have problems with kicking up) was still very hard to get to release with the plastic spring tensioner screw all the way out.

I took both springs out and realized that the starboard spring was taller/stiffer than the port. This explains a lot. No idea how or why these springs ended up different, but they are. I plan to pick up a few stainless springs of similar size from my local Fleet Farm supply store and wee which ones work the best. A pic of the two springs...they are quite a bit different.

Image

Also, what is hard to discern from the photo, is that the starboard spring has a smaller diameter. It's much harder to compress. Will update when the fix is complete.

Pics of casting while still on the boat.

Image
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