Hey guys new around here

Kaos
when beating in 10 - 15 knots, can you estimate how many seconds it takes you to go from one tack to another?
last year, our best time was around 7 seconds (in a gust)

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

I have never timed my tacks, either on a monohull or a catamaran. My objective is to never stop moving. The boat moves through the tack and accelerates out on the other tack. The boat should tack just like a monohull, no pause to back wind sails etc. It should take no more time than it takes to tack a monohull with a jib.

After reading what Sabre posted, I may not have done enough explaining about what I am taking about steering with sails. I was making lots of assumptions like already at full speed etc. that may not be present with a new sailor.

I will add a little more for a clearer picture of what I was trying to say. Also, I am not disagreeing with Sabre, just explaining in a little more detail what I meant. What I am trying to create when tacking, is a boat that tries to round up and tack on its own. As mentioned, when you pull in the main sail (all else being equal) the boat will head up. Conversely when you pull in the jib (all else being equal) then the boat turns away from the wind. You work these 2 sails together to find a balance where the boat goes straight. To tack if you create a situation with the boat where it "rounds up" and begins a very fast tack especially when followed up with the helm turning. The act of releasing the jib, will result in the boat turning into the wind on its own. Have crew go to the low side will turn the boat towards the wind. If you have anything left in mainsheet tension you pull it in as well, also making the boat turn into the wind. Those three actions plus rudder input and the boat is turning fast. The opposite inputs are needed coming out of a tack. Jib pulled in to have the boat turn away from the wind. The mainsheet eased to also turn the boat away from the wind (the main is very important and very big sail) if not eased will turn the boat back into the wind rather than letting the boat continue its turn away from the wind on the new tack. Both crew on new side can now pull the main back in to complete acceleration on the new tack.

The most common errors I witness with new sailors are jibs not pulled in fast enough on the new tack. The next is the main sheet not being eased, (this one usually results in boat not completing the tack and going into irons.) Also (when) you ease the main is just as important. Not before you tack but in the middle of the tack.

Another little item that sailors new to cat sailing may not be aware of is what is known as a "dimetack" This was an old Hobie 14 trick used back in the day, re-tasked as a safety value for folks having issues tacking a multihull. This will also work on trimarans such as the F -boats and any cat. (it does not work on a monohull) I show this to crew that are new in the event I fall off when a trap breaks or something. Simply let the sails out. Let the jib luff and the main traveled out and sheet out. (The rudders should have the boat pointed towards the wind in a stalled position- if you point the boat down wind the boat will sail off) Now to tack from the current position relative to the wind, say if the wind is coming from the starboard side of the boat, you simple pull on the boom. You pull and push the boom until it is all the way against the starboard shroud. Remember when we began this maneuver the boom was eased to the port shrouds. The boat will spin under the main/boom just like tacking a windsurfer. Just pay a little attention to the rudders as the boat tries to move forward and back ward as you move the sail from one side of the boat to the other. The objective with the rudders is to help the boat continue it turn whether backing or going forward a little. Your boats position will now be pointed in the opposite direction relative to the wind then when you began (or tacked to the other side) Then to get going again you just pull in the sails and steer in the new direction. Once you try this out it will be easy to spin the boat to go off on either tack you would like. I use this maneuver a lot when waiting on starts and trying to position myself with out sailing off and leaving the spot I want to be in control of relative to the starting line. This is also a safety value if a crew must tack the boat by themselves without having to sail off and try to tack. Also very handy to have this down in the event you blow a normal tack and want to get out of irons going the direction you want to go.

Cheers

Two years ago, in a regatta, I needed a tip like that.
I stalled the H18, with a I-14 headed straight for me, I did NOT have rights, but I could not move the H18.
I yelled out that I was stalled, and he capsized his I-14 rather than collide.

Then we released the jib, and the H18 started to pivot and move.

No protests.... and the right thing to do was to buy them some oat soda's afterwards.

thanks

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Well I have technically "sailed" the H18 from a beach.
Wind was coming about 15* along shore, waves were averaging 1.5-2'. No issues setting up the boat or getting it into water. Would seem that I only got the ring half way onto the hook, I did the jerk test and it passed. But it came off the hook some where passed the breakers. The jib was pulling us along, main was as effective as a battened bed sheet. Way too much twist, completely under powered, but that's fine my crew was nerviess. We sailed a broad reach for around 500yrds, tacked 180* and went straight back in to beach.

We were setting up for lunch when we were advised by a local fishing guide about the coming weather, decided to relocate. Packed up the boat, camp, and headed for the other side of the island. Ended up calling my friend and heading to his house off the island. The visibility on the island that afternoon was getting shorter and shorter, could probably only see 50yrds in broad daylight.

A little water in hulls nothing major.

Once you've checked that the ring/hook is engaged, be sure to pull on some downhaul tension and cleat the downhaul line. This will help to verify that the ring is properly seated and it will also keep the ring from popping off the hook (especially if you're bouncing through waves/chop).



This is because your halyard ring was not hooked. With the ring hooked, you will be able to pull on some downhaul which will induce shape into the sail. You will also be able to properly tension the main sheet to reduce twist.

sm

That's what I meant by it passed the test, I put my weight into the sail pulling it down. Granted that's no 6:1 pulley system but I thought it did the job. I'm sure I was just in a hurry etc.

Orion, do you have a downhaul set up on your H18? Under proper downhaul tension, the mainsail should never come unhooked. The original setup on the H18 was quite minimal - a 3/16" or 1/4" line tied to the grommet at the tack of the mainsail, fed down through a sheave on the port side of the mast, then back up through the grommet in the tack and down through a jam cleat on the stbd side of the mast. If the downhaul came loose on you, try upsizing the line slightly or even tying a knot after the jam cleat. This is a 3:1 purchase downhaul, which is wholly ineffective on an H18 for sail shape & de-powering, but it will at least take the wrinkles out and keep you mainsail hooked.

Do you know if your mast has a "flipper" on the hook? Many older H18's had them. The intent of this device was to make lowering the sail easier, but in effect it makes raising the mainsail trickier. Many sailors remove it by drilling out the rivet. I actually like it, but you have to understand how it works and how to use it. In the "up" position, the flipper unblocks the hook and allows the sail to be hooked, but in the "down" position the flipper blocks the hook and allows the ring to slide past it.

When raising the mainsail on an H18 with a flipper, you want to raise the ring just past the hook - the flipper will flip up. Then you ease the main halyard (and tug on the sail if you have to) to settle the ring into the hook. Give it a good tug at the tack of the sail, and if it doesn't start to slide down, it's hooked. However, if you accidentally raise the ring too far past the hook, as you start to lower the sail, the ring with catch the flipper and flip it back down. All you have to do is lower the ring back down below the hook, and then try again. To lower the sail, simply pull the halyard to lift the ring out of the hook (the flipper will flip up) and up past the flipper. Then, as you lower the sail, the ring will catch the flipper and flip it down, preventing the ring from getting hooked and allowing the mainsail to continue down. Those who have removed the flipper simply push the mast rotator to rotate the hook to the side so the ring doesn't catch it on the way down.

In your case, if the ring got somehow caught on the flipper it could've seemed hooked even if it wasn't. At one point I ended up bending the hook slightly with my 6:1 downhaul, which made the flipper jam in the "down" position the next time I went to rig my mainsail... had to spend a good 5 minutes trying to get the damn thing to lift so I could get the ring hooked!

It's also critical that the boat be pointed directly into the wind when hoisting/lowering the mainsail. This makes the whole system function much more easily.

If you're using the original stock 3:1 downhaul system, you can use the mainsheet to assist with tensioning the downhaul. Pull on the mainsheet good and hard, then move forward and tension the downhaul. Then release the mainsheet. It's not an ideal way of doing it, but it's what we used to do before the more powerful systems were allowed.

sm

Boy did I ever learn that lesson when I was just starting out! Either I didn't get the mainsail hooked, or I decided to drop the main and then tried to get it raise again on the water. It's just next to impossible to raise (or lower) the mainsail if you're not pointing directly into the wind, and when you're on the water, there's just no good way of doing that. Point the boat into the wind, get the mainsail up before you leave the beach or dock, and leave it up while you're on the water!

Srm, I have rigged a 6:1 Downhual, lower block is mounted to a shackle through the lower halyard sheave. I used a spare 10 hole shroud adjuster cut into two pieces of flat strap at the tack. Of course the boom runs through the ropes.

Most of the work I have done to the boat over the winter has actually been to the trailer. Rewired, DB box, sail tube, storage box on the tongue that my 330# dad could stand on with out worry of it collapsing, I also blasted galvanized and painted the roller brackets, greased rollers, cur pool noddle "bump" guards on the verticals. To the boat; I have dressed and painted (red, trailering with them installed so they are their own flags lol) both rudders, riveted the mast step, it failed, cross drilled and pinned the striker, removing all tension load from the rivets, ran a halyard (hastily purchased, 3/16" vinyl coated cable), installed brass bushings to the rudder castings, alum. pins installed, used 5min epoxy for holes,nicks, gashed etc. in DBs and hulls. I have also removed the flapper, and use mast rotation to get the hook in the ring, also so I can't forget the pin lol.

A little back ground on me, I have two AS degrees, computer electronics and mathmatics, was on my way to achieving my BS in mechanical engineering, when at the age of 30 in Feb. 2015 I suffered a stroke. I have been type 1 diabetic for the past, now 23 years. So I am reaching retirement age in my opinion.

Can you elaborate what you mean by that? Just a little curious. You don't want to add any more holes in the center of the forward crossbar than area already there, as that area is under a crazy amount of bending stress as it is. srm has a great post about replacing the mast step, including a picture of a crossbar that was on its way to breaking in half.

You'd probably be much better off with a soft line than a cable for a halyard. Those sheaves have a pretty tight radius, not really meant for cable. It might make it more difficult to raise and lower the mainsail, and make it harder to tell when you've got it hooked. Besides, I'm sure a 3/16" line can be coiled up and tucked into a tramp pocket a lot easier than a 3/16" cable!

Not a bad point! I've forgotten to remove mine on a couple of occasions and bent the hell out of the pin when tensioning the rig. It's a pain to get out under load! If you ever lose it, make sure you have something on hand (long screw driver, perhaps) to use in it's place.

Pretty much what I said. I jacked down the rod, rod is stuck in end castings. Marked the striker where it exited the cross bar. Then I cross drilled the striker, in the center, large enough for a roll bin parallel to cross bar. Low enough to place a zinc washer and a plastic disk. The plastic disk having to be sanded down to thickness, such that when the rod is released the step only raised a few thousandths. Then the step was riveted, having no tension load on the rivets, I expect I won't have to rivet it ever again.

Drilling the striker was a pain in the a$$. Broke several bits using my mag base drill.

I used the plastic disk to limit chances of galvanic corrosion. Another plus of removing the tension load on the rivets is that aluminum rivets could base used in the aluminum crossbar.

I can email u a pic if u need it, pm me your email if desired.

I'm not worried about the hole I drilled in the striker, all of the force on the striker is in compression. Assuming no one ever tries to tow the boat by the striker, even then my material mechanics class tells my that the center is not subjected to much force in a bending moment. And I have spliced a ring of oversized rope, rapped around the crossbar and step as a tow point.

As for the halyard, it works for the time being, I'll replace it when it rusts and gets ugly or breaks. I coil th bottom length after the sail is up down to a 2" radius, I know the sheaves are much smaller radius but hey if it works why fix it?

Hmm, interesting idea. So your goal was to take the tension load off of the rivets by transferring the compression load on the dolphin striker to the crossbar through a barrel pin in the striker immediately below the crossbar, and then isolating the pin from the crossbar with a zinc washer & plastic disc. I suppose that as long as there is enough contact area between the pin, washer & crossbar, the compression load should be sufficiently transferred without needing stainless rivets, and without deforming the crossbar. The dolphin striker then handles all shear loads from the mast base, which it should be more than capable of.

I wouldn't worry about the compression on the striker itself (depending on how large of a hole you drilled), but I would definitely avoid towing by the striker. If the hole in the striker is right at the underside of the crossbar, that is where your bending moment will be at it's maximum. Sure, the hole is centered on the striker, but you've also reduced cross sectional area and increased the stress in that location to some degree. Also note that the neutral axis would not be centered on the striker in the "towing" scenario because the striker is under compression and bending loads.

If you have to tow the boat, tie a line to the forward crossbar just inboard of each hull and tow that way. You'll need someone to steer the hobie while it is under tow. I've seen pictures of bent strikers, though it's usually from someone trying to pull the boat on the beach with a line tied to the striker.