Hey guys new around here

Intro: hi may name is Bryan, and im a sailor.

Lol n e ways, I've been sailing a Force5 for a little over a year now. Mostly in Texas lakes. I got tied of leaving the eye candy on shore while her bf and I sail, so now I have a Hobie 18. I've been working on it this winter, revive tend the mast step twice now. Added a sail tube, db box, rewired, and a storage box to the trailer. Like many others I washed my boat to find it a different color than was expected. Original sails (by #) are still crisp enough for my usage, boat was made in '81.

What can I expect coming from a 14' mono to a 18' cat? Besides speed.

Handling differences between the cat rigged mono and this sloop rigged cat?

My friends are taking me to the coast this weekend and want me to bring the cat. Should I? Being as I haven't got this boat wet yet. I do know how to sail, I learned some time ago in Boy Scouts, I'm 30 now. I am a fly weight at 130#s though.

Anything else I should look out for?

If your down by Corpus Christi and have a 4x4, come check us out! We will be out on PINS.

Hello and welcome!

I will tell you that cat sailing is a completely different animal. Same basic principles, but a lot more speed & acceleration. Cat's don't point very high upwind or very deep downwind, so an upwind or downwind course can take some time. Your fastest point of sail is a broad reach.

Upwind, you'll find that the catamaran may want to "fly a hull," as you have a lot of lift in the sails relative to the weight of the boat. It can be a tough balancing act at first, so try and keep your sails more on the flat side if you start to lift off - a lot of downhaul, outhaul & tight mainsheet. Dump the mainsheet if you lift too high, and steer back towards the wind. Downwind is really tough to get the hang of on a catamaran (particularly in light winds), because you want to continue to use the apparent wind (at about 90 degrees to the bow) to create lift with the sails, rather than drag (like on a monohull). Upwind, your best course is probably about 30-35 degrees apparent wind, which ends up being about 45-60 degrees true wind angle. Tacking can be tricky, as the boat loses momentum as soon as you turn into the wind. Try to make sure to get the bows through the wind as quickly as possible and fill the jib on the other side, helping pull them around.

As far as sailing this weekend, if you're familiar with sailing and the winds & waves aren't too much for your first outing, I think it'd be a fantastic chance to try it out! However, at 130, you're very light for an H18. You're going to want to make sure that you have a heavier crew member or two with you, for a total weight of 300 lbs (anything less and you won't be able to right the boat if you capsize). Make sure you've got a righting line and keep it close enough to shore, until you've got the hang of it and feel comfortable venturing out further.

One book that has been an enormous help in understanding the nuances of cat sailing and improved my sailing skills and know-how tremendously is Catamaran Racing for the 90's, which includes a section specific to the Hobie 18. I'd highly recommend it. Every time I go back and re-read it, I pick up on a handful of new tricks!

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Mike

'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921 RIP
'78 H18 (unnamed) sail #14921
'08 H16 sail #114312
'97 H21SC sail #238

Yeah I know I'm on the light side lol, my normal crew is 230#s, crew this weekend will be two people over 200 I think, so I got that covered.

I know the basics of sail trim for depowering, less shape mean less power and drag. Out haul will be tight, main/"vang" (lol) needs to be tight as well, so play the traveler? Downhual tighter mean more shape right, or draft further forward creating more drag?

Are you familiar with the term "backwind-ing the jib"?

By down to the coast, do you mean ocean sailing?

Personally, I would not recommend your first experience sailing your first cat be in the ocean. Breaking waves, stronger winds, currents, etc. all add to the complexity of the situation. You really have to know what you're doing and have a degree of confidence in your boat handling skills before you venture into ocean sailing (or other large bodies of water for that matter). These boats can get the better of you if the wind comes up and you're not ready for it. A Hobie 18 is a much different animal than a Force 5.

sm

Mainsheet tight, downhaul (cunningham) tight induces more mast bend, moves draft forward and flattens the sail. An 18 also has a mast rotation bar, which is used to allow the mast to rotate ~70 degrees off of the longitudinal orientation, so that it bends on its minor axis. If you allow the mast to rotate more than 70 degrees, you make it easier to bend the mast & flatten the sail (and get a flatter sail as a result), whereas if you rotate it less, you'll get a fuller sail, at the expense of a poor entry to the wind (less rotation creates a "dimple" on the leeward/low pressure side of the sail.

If you've got too much power even with a tight mainsheet, outhaul & downhaul, travel out a few inches to a foot to bleed off some more power. If that proves to be too much still, furl the jib. After that you'd have to dump the mainsheet enough to spill air off the top of your sail and just use the bottom 3rd for power, but you'll definitely lose some pointing ability.

As srm said, ocean sailing can be very tricky & dangerous for a first sail on a new boat. That's why I was presupposing calm waves & light-moderate winds, and even then I'd stay in a protected harbor or near other boats so they can help if things go awry. I wouldn't try beach launching through the surf on your first sail, that's an artform unto itself.

Well I've worked out my crew so the schedule now is to put it in the lake for a few hours Wed. morning so that will give us a shakedown cruise before I head to the beach Thursday. If that doesn't go well I'll be leaving it at the lake. Maybe take the F5 instead, either way it will be fun.

I do understand the concept of backing the jib, so that it forces the bows through the wind when tacking. If reverse motion occurs then flip the rudders.

My diamond wires are currently tight, like piano tight. I should loosen then to touch mast 2' from lower bolts?
To allow more bend on the minor.

I'm also going to reave 2:1 purchase on my furler. Not that will make a huge difference but it will double the speed of the furl.

Battens are currently untied for storage. At the beach I should tie them for restraint purposes, not shape, let the cut give me its shape and that it?

Either way, stay tuned. I'll be sure to share my experiences.

Diamond wire tension, as you've guessed, controls how readily the mast bends in the lower 2/3rds. It really depends on the wind. If you've got 500 lbs of crew, you may want to leave them tight, as you'll need quite a bit more power than you would at 300 lbs. If the wind is strong, maybe loosen them up a bit. General approach is 1' = tight, 2' = medium, 3' = loose.

I'd suggest getting some batten tension gauges (stickers) to make it easier to judge batten tension. You want each one about as tight as the next, so you get a uniform shape. Generally just tight enough to take the wrinkles out and maybe give it a slight bow.

Another adjustment to be aware of is mast rake (when setting up standing rigging). Raking the mast further forward gives more power, raking the mast aft gives less power, more pointing ability, and also makes the bows a little less likely to dive on a gust. Measure the distance from the bridle wire bow tang to a point 4' up the mast. Try to set the mast such that this distance is 105" - 107".

You'll have plenty of opportunities to tune your rig & sails for better performance as you get better with handling the boat. To begin you need to get a feel for how she behaves. If you're familiar with a knockdown on the Force 5, where your gunwale is in the water, the difference is the Hobie will lift, in a big puff very quickly, so if conditions are gusty you need to concentrate and anticipate the puffs, else you'll wind up on her side and learning how to right it (a very worthy practice session in lighter winds). A quick hand on the mainsheet/traveler is important.
When tacking through the wind, you do not slam tack the cat, she'll stop. A moderate curve through the eye of the wind without bleeding off too much speed works well. In fact you can crack off a couple degrees to accelerate before you bring it over to the other tack. The H18 with dagger boards tacks better than a cat without, but she'll not slam tack like the Force 5.
Downwind in moderate to heavy air, you'll need to keep weight back and watch your bows. The H18 has lot of floatation up front, but in moderate seas (3'+) you'll have to watch to keep the bows from burying into the back of a wave. Blowing the sheets to release pressure on the sails usually gets her out of that situation.
There are some good books on the subject, find what you can and get familiar.

Best to try her out in winds under 10kts. If the water is cool or cold, wear protection. You'll get wet!

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Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

All good points!


I find that releasing the mainsheet often doesn't do enough or allow the cat to react quickly enough in a gust. I often try to turn further downwind to use the buoyancy/volume of both bows to prevent them from digging in, and if I need to, sheeting in to present less sail area. Of course, a thinner mainsheet would run through the blocks faster than the stock 7/16 spun dacron.


Ditto! But I'd avoid winds under about 5 kts, especially with a heavy crew or a lot of chop! Nothing more infuriating than not having enough wind to fill the sails, or constantly having the wind shaken out of your sails from all the wakes of passing power boats!

The lake I will be sailing on has minimal boat traffic, lake sommerville, being a Corp of eng. lake, no one can actually live on the lake only near it. Winds are typically under 10 mph, and very shifty, like 90* shifts I've dealt with on the the F5.

Unfortunately boat didn't get wet this morning, I forgot to bring the butte plug for the F5 to be put into the Hobie. So it will be my first time Friday, but SF predicts 11-13 mph with 2' waves. Storm Sat. so it will be back on the trailer if we haven't left before then.

Do what SRM and Older Bowman said, they have taught me lots.

My suggestion is that you 'set' things like the diamond wires, outhaul etc, in a general setting, then go out and try the basics -
Do a couple of tacks, feel how the mainsheet handles, move the traveler out 12" and feel the difference.
Remember to 'carve' your turn, cross the eye of the wind, move your body weight across, release the main about 36", release the jib/retighten on the other side, and sail.

Try a broad reach, and do NOT lock the mainsheet, hand hold it in case of a gust.
Then run 45 degrees downwind, let the traveler out and tighten up on the mainsheet.
Move to the back of the tramp and perform the gybe.

Get the feel of how sensitive the H18 is to 'trim'.
What happens when you move your body weight towards the bow or the stern?
What happens if you are beating or running, and you move fore or aft?

Do you have trapeze harnesses, and are you accustomed to using them?

Get some mileage under 'controlled' conditions, then go out and have fun.
The H18 is one of the great cats to sail.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

John has a way of giving good advice succinctly.

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís

You picked a great first multihull, very forgiving even in heavy air.

I thought I would add some sailing tips that are particularly important for catamarans. These boats accelerate quickly but also slow down quickly. Because of their light weight they have very little momentum when moving threw the water. Meaning that tacking can be challenging if you are not using the sails properly. Most folks who have sailed monohulls never had to really learn proper "sailing techniques" when tacking. mainly because they did not need to on a monohull, which has plenty of momentum to carry it through a tack with out getting into irons.

Here are the steps for tacking using your sails. Assuming your are sailing up wind and close hauled 45 degrees to the wind. The first step is for your crew to release the jib to start the tack. The boat will head into the wind by itself with out turning the helm when you do this. Next start to turn your rudders (no more the a 45 degree angle on the rudders). The boat will now be head straight into the wind and half way through your tack. At this point before you cross to the other side of the boat, release the main sheet about 6 to 8 inches and re cleat. Your crew should have been moving to the other side of the boat the second they released the jib. Your next move is to move the tiller to the other side of the main sheet. In the beginning it may be easier to just throw it in the water behind the boat and grab the tiller cross bar. Be sure to maintain the rudder angle through the turn, if you let go it will go to centerline and stall the boats turn. As you are crossing to the other side it is very important for you crew to be trimming in the jib. This must be in before the boat gets turned to the new tack heading. If the jib is in and the boat is starting to accelerate on the new tack then you can pull the main back in, but not until boat is moving again on the new tack. You would have straighten your rudders when you got to the other side of the boat during the tack as the boat should have been turned enough by then to be on the next close hauled heading. If you do these steps this way you will be able to tack seamlessly without much loss of speed and had a very fast tack.

If you are having to "back wind a jib" you are tacking wrong. Now I understand that you may have to do it at first as you may take some time to get these steps working properly. My advise is that if you even plan to back wind a jib you are setting your self up for failure.

Now the WHY for the steps I have explained earlier. How sails steer a boat. Your main sail when pulled in will turn a boat into the wind. Your jib will turn a boat away from the wind. Crew weight- weight on the low side of the boat (away from windward side) will make a boat turn into the wind while weight to weather will turn a boat away from the wind. These actions of sails and crew weight is what most of us fight with the helm or rudders if we have anything out of balance, too much mail sail tension etc. You want to learn a feel for the boat wanting to go in the direction you want it to go by itself, not by forcing it with your rudders. Because of the light weight and large sail area you will learn on a catamaran you can not win that battle over your sails with the tiny rudders. Now read my steps above and review what the sails are doing to help turn the boat. Then you will see why back winding a jib to help a tack is one of the main reasons you...well have to back wind the jib, you already messed up the tack.

The other comments I will add regarding catamarans and what folks seem to think about them. The reality is they are very stable boats. You do the kind of mistakes on a monohull that you see on a catamaran and that monohull would have turned over way before the cat. Cats point as high to weather as a monohull. The problem with that is that you will go as slow as a monohull doing that. However cats will sail as high as a monohull. Cats will sail very well down wind, they just go a lot faster if you sail higher angle using apparent wind.

Good luck

Kaos did a pretty good job explaining the approach/process to a tack and the importance of proper sail trim & weight trim while maneuvering. Fore & aft trim/weight placement is equally important, but that's a lot more than you need to be concerned with on your first few outings.

To his process, I'd just add that when tacking, you should keep up speed - possibly bear off slightly to gain speed before turning up - and steer into the tack first. I'd wait until the jib breaks/starts to luff before uncleating it, then go through the process as described. Releasing the mainsheet is a key factor, and then when you do get onto your new tack with the jib moderately sheeted in, bear off slightly to pick up speed, and then bring the jib & main in tighter as you come back up to close-hauled.

When sailing upwind, we focus on the angle that accomplishes your best VMG (velocity made good), which is a lot more broad of an angle on a catamaran than on a monohull - say 50-60 degrees rather than 35-45 degrees. Because cats sail so much faster, you get significantly more apparent wind and have to sail further off the wind than a monohull. The catamaran may physically continue to move forward at 35-45 degrees, but you're wasting a lot of potential energy at that angle, and sailing a lot slower.