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 Post subject: Proper Downhaul Set-Up
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:12 am
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Hello - I've owned a 16 and a Getaway and recently purchased an 18, which we took out yesterday for the first time. It is a 1982. We could use advice on two topics:

1. What is the proper way to set-up the downhaul? We couldn't figure it out and so jury rigged something just so we could get out on the water (winds were less than 8 knots). I've searched Google for pictures and found several with multiple pulley blocks and cleats but that is definitely not the stock set up for this boat. Any advice or pictures would be great.

2. What the heck does the wish bone attached to the mast (about 24 inches from bottom) do?!!!! I thought it would become evident when we were sailing but still couldn't detect its purpose.

Have a great father's day!

Justin


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 3533
Location: Jersey Shore
Check out the assembly manual.

https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/H18%26SX_Manual.pdf?_ga=2.37964003.1725275159.1528543088-2029119106.1505777923

The stock downhaul system is very minimal. Look to upgrading to at least a 5:1 system.

The wishbone above the gooseneck is the mast rotation arm. There should be a line attached to the top of the boom. Thread the line through the end of the rotation arm and back to the cleat on the boom. Tighten the line to reduce rotation, loosen it to increase rotation.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:34 am 
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Thanks,SM!

This is very helpful! But I had to laugh outloud. The instructions on downhaul set-up are almost exactly what I did as a "jury rig" set up! Oh well - I guess I need to upgrade that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 127
Location: South Boardman, Mi
Justin,

Compared to the 16 and the Getaway the 18 is much more sensitive to tuning. A poorly tuned H16 will likely outpace a poorly tuned H18. However a well tuned H18 will walk away from a H16 at any point of sail. Critical to a well tuned H18 is a decent downhaul setup. The factory one is ok, but any upgrade here will help a lot.

On the cheap, you can tie a couple of blocks to the tack of the sail, and use the factory hardware on the mast to achieve 4 or 5:1 downhaul ratios.

More expensive options give you the ability to adjust the downhaul from either side of the mast, or even somewhat remotely.

There are a lot of resources, both print and electronic on sail tuning. Phil Berman has written quite a few books on the subject.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:27 pm
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Location: Dunedin, FL
I'm pretty sure between all the 18's I've sailed with no one has had an identical downhaul setup. The same purchase between some boats maybe as the stock system is like 3:1 but some have cleats still riveted on the mast, some dont and just tie a knot and forget it, some have remote cam cleat adjustable setups with more purchase but how they attach to the sail varies between the DIY rigging. Just one of those things.

It kinda matters and kinda doesnt. Running your jib cars in the wrong position makes a bigger difference in overall performance so don't worry too much if your downhaul setup sucks

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Matt
'82 NACRA 18 Square
'85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
'86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:14 am 
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Thanks so much TAMUmpower and Speed633. I've purchased the Berman book and will start devouring that. I'd like to upgrade the downhaul set up. I found the Murray $200 solution. Is there anything else out there you would recommend?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:20 pm
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Location: South Boardman, Mi
I have been quite happy with my $20 solution.

Where the gooseneck attaches to the mast I replaced the clevis pin with an eye-bolt, eye end up. From the tack of the sail I hung/tied on a couple of blocks, one on port, one on starboard.

Using this setup I have been able to achieve a 4:1 setup without any drilling or breaking the bank.

Rope path:
Start at the gooseneck/eye-bolt.
Run up and around the port block (sail tack)
Run down and around the factory cheek block on the port side of the mast
Run up and around the starboard block (sail tack)
Run down and thru the factory jam cleat on the starboard side of the mast.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:18 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
The Murrays system is probably a little over-priced for what it is, but it has the advantage of being a plug-n-play system. Pop it on and you’re good to go.

There are countless ways to set up your system. IMO, the pivoting exit blocks are worth the expense and you will forget about the cost the first time you use them. A vertical cleat mounted on the side of the mast is just not easy to adjust.

Having a functional downhaul really helps to depower the boat when the wind is up. On the race course, we frequently adjust the downhaul throughout its entire range of travel.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:34 am 
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Location: Dunedin, FL
Yea, I have a central single cleat 6:1 setup on one boat like the murrays but with a triple stack block on the top. The gap between the blocks is long enough you can cleat it from either side of the boat as the whole bottom block with cleat will rotate easily.

My other boat has a pivoting exit block on both sides of the mast and is the max 8:1. You have to use hooks to attach the blocks on each side with a loop of rope going through the downhaul gromet.

Anything above 18kn and I have the 8:1 and 7:1 mainsheet maxed out with what I can put into it. Helps ease the upper leach but it really doesnt do much as far as mast bend because the dacron is so old and the bolt rope is pretty stretchy.

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Matt
'82 NACRA 18 Square
'85 Hobie 18 "Honey Badger Don't Care"
'86 Hobie 18 "The Rippin & The Tearin"


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
In Australia we run 8:1 mainsail downhaul luff tension.
Four blocks (two micro doubles) hanging off the mainsail tack eye and a triple or three singles at the bottom. These then feed into two swivel cleats on each side at the base of the mast (as low as possible).

Photos of this arrangement can be found on my boats own Facebook page. It has different albums for different topics. Each photo has commentary on it.

https://m.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/

Use minimum 5mm prestretched rope with soft outer casing so it is soft on the crew hands.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:09 pm 
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John Forbes:

Really impressive Facebook content. From your photos your mast appears very straight going upwind. Do you sail with a comptip mast? I haven't been able to keep my mast top from twisting off since I've gone from the solid aluminum mast to the comptip. In a breeze the bendy comptip twists off. I have photos from my solid mast days and those masts appear to be much straighter above the shrouds than the comptip.

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Jim

H16 20645 Blue Streak
H18 930 Blue Streak
H18 3385 Carumba
H18 ???? Blue Hawaii
H18 12497 Blue Hawaii


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:06 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
NevertoooldH18 wrote:
John Forbes:

Really impressive Facebook content. From your photos your mast appears very straight going upwind. Do you sail with a comptip mast? I haven't been able to keep my mast top from twisting off since I've gone from the solid aluminum mast to the comptip. In a breeze the bendy comptip twists off. I have photos from my solid mast days and those masts appear to be much straighter above the shrouds than the comptip.


Hi Jim,
Yes in Australia we run full alloy masts with no comptip. We are less litigious Down Under. :D
We therefore have a more even curve all the way up the mast.

If you look at the recent photos from the USA North Americans on Facebook (posted just this week) you can see the USA boats have much more flexy mast tips than full alloy.

A sail on a comptip should be able to run softer battens in the top 3 to compensate for the extra mast bend. That being, the softer battens will give you more power in the head, but it will also flatten off easier and earlier due to the more flexible mast tip.

Hope this helps.

_________________
John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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