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 Post subject: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:13 am
Posts: 3
I hit a surprise gust yesterday and went over fast, from 90' to 180' was around 30 seconds or at least it seemed. I sailboat with an electric motor pulled me up.
I've been reading quite a bit today and I wonder about the seals on my mast and the buoyancy of it.
Can anyone tell me what seals? If I drop the mast with some silicon caulk in hand will it be obvious?
Thanks!
Gene


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Buffalo, NY
The mast is sealed for the most part by rivets and rivet caps, with maybe a small amount of sealant around some of the attachments. Every rivet in the mast, at the masthead, the mast tang, the sail feeder, the mast rotator, the diamond wire anchor points, the downhaul sheave and jam cleat, and the mast base, could potentially be a source of a leak. If you have a comptip, that's also very possibly a location for a leak.

Best way to tell is to take your mast into a swimming pool or by the beach on a calm day and submerge it in the water, and check for air bubbles coming from any of the rivets or fittings. Once you narrow down where it's leaking from, drill out and replace the rivets & rivet caps, with a dab of caulk or sealant behind them.

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Mike
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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: Oakland, CA
Did you need help righting from a capsize? That is where you will have the most difficulty raising the mast if it has water in it.

Check the mast for holes by dunking it in a lake, or just visually looking for holes in the mast. Then seal with caulk and/or rivets.

Turtling your boat does not always mean you have a leaky mast; usually it means the wind on the tramp pushed it down. After regrouping from a capsize, try to point the bow into the wind as much as you can. One technique is to swim to the bow and hold it while the boat weather-vanes out of the wind, which usually keeps the boat from turtling.

Righting from a turtle isn't that big of a deal, usually. Just stand on the leeward hull with the righting line and lean. When the wind gets under the tramp then it helps bring the boat to a capsize position. Then right like you would from a capsize.


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
So you are sailing along on a warm day, and in the sunshine, the black mast picks up heat.

The next thing is that in a gust of wind, the H18 capsizes, and the mast falls into the cool water.
Shlurp, the hot mast will suck in cool water....and you have a problem.

This is why it is important to seal the mast, and check the seals from time to time.

I took the easy way out and mounted a Hobie Bob.....as the Ottawa River is not that deep, and a turtle would kill my comp tip.

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:30 am 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
Which is also part of the reason I really like my clear anodized aluminum. It doesn't get hot in the sun. I haven't sailed any of the black anodized boats, so I'm not sure just how much it heats up, but it seems like it would get fairly hot in the bright sun.


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:25 pm 
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SabresfortheCup wrote:
The mast is sealed for the most part by rivets and rivet caps, with maybe a small amount of sealant around some of the attachments. Every rivet in the mast, at the masthead, the mast tang, the sail feeder, the mast rotator, the diamond wire anchor points, the downhaul sheave and jam cleat, and the mast base, could potentially be a source of a leak. If you have a comptip, that's also very possibly a location for a leak.


Did the later 18's not have the foam plug/aluminum plate seal? I know we replaced them every so often and got good at it when everyone wanted a Comp Tip.


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Location: Buffalo, NY
SFBaySailor, can you clarify? I'm not familiar with what foam plug or plate you're referring to, and I have one of the original boats.

I believe there is a foam plug inside the mast, in the vicinity of the compression plate/anchor bolt for the mast rotator, but I'm not sure how that contributes to the seal of the mast.

I will say that my mast has started to leak on me recently, and I believe it is from the mast rotator bolt/sleeve. I've occasionally heard water in my mast (stored sail track up on the trailer 95% of the time), and it usually drains from the mast rotator when I step the mast. It seems to be over the course of the winter that the water seeps in, but I'll have to take my own advice and dunk the mast to check for leaks.

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Mike
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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:06 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Sydney, Australia
If you have a full alloy mast (no Comptip) then there should be two seals. One about 4-6” down from the top. The top one has a foam plug held in place with silicone and an alloy plate to hold it in place. You can see and feel this if you pop the mast head casting off.

The lower one should be just above the rotator/diamond wire bolt. Again, it is a foam plug held in with silicone. It can be seen if you pop the mast base casting off.

From the rotator bolt downwards it is not sealed but it does not affect the safety when capsized.

The rivets on any and every fitting can all be potential entry points. Fill the holes in each and every rivet with epoxy (araldite). Try not to use silicone if you can.

If possible, the fittings should be removed as they did not have any protection between them and the alloy at original time of manufacture. Therefore there is potential for severe corrosion if not attended to. Fittings should be removed, cleaned and replaced with an anti corrosive compound on the back of each fitting. Use something like Duralac or similar. Try and use Monel rivets, not stainless steel or alloy.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:03 am 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
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Location: Buffalo, NY
John Forbes wrote:
If you have a full alloy mast (no Comptip) then there should be two seals. One about 4-6” down from the top. The top one has a foam plug held in place with silicone and an alloy plate to hold it in place. You can see and feel this if you pop the mast head casting off.

The lower one should be just above the rotator/diamond wire bolt. Again, it is a foam plug held in with silicone. It can be seen if you pop the mast base casting off.


Interesting. I knew about the lower foam plug, but not the upper one. I wonder if they deteriorate over time, because it seemed to me that when my mast had water in it, the water was able to run the entire length of the mast. Once I stepped the mast and left it up for a couple of days, the water was visibly draining out the mast rotator holes (very slow trickle), and seemed to have drained completely after that.

Good advice on the corrosion. Fortunately for me I sail only in freshwater, so it's never been an issue on my boat.


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 Post subject: Re: First Turtle!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:06 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Sydney, Australia
The design fault at time of build was putting the lower foam plug at the same point as the rotator arm/diamond wire bolt. Therefore, any salt water in the mast sat exactly at that point inside the mast and just started fizzing for eternity. Thus many masts are very corroded at that point, behind the backing plate and internally so you get a double whammy of corrosion. For all the “freshies”, you are lucky.

R&R all fittings to save your mast.

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John Forbes
Hobie 18 classic
Sail # 490
Boat name: 18@heart
www.hobie18.fun
https://www.facebook.com/Hobie18catamaran/


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