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Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65439		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jds0912 [ Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
So I'm sure others have run into this problem, but I cannot seem to go a season without cutting myself open on the jib blocks/track. Sunday I went out solo in a good breeze and flopped after my feet slipped on the tramp and wound up with 6 stitches in my forearm. Basically in an attempt to scurry up to the high side my arm hit something sharp which I can only guess was the jib block or the round track release mech. This is the second time I've had a bad slice on my forearms from gear on the hulls. My feet used to always get cut until I started wearing boots.

I feel like the new harken stuff is less stabbie than my current seaway blocks, but spendy (especially since the seaways work great). Realistically I think moving the blocks to the fore crossbar would really clean up the cockpit. Seems like all the newer hobies (see: dragoon/16 ect) have the blocks on the bow. Question is, is the cut of the jib too full to accommodate this mod? Dont really want to buy a new jib either.

If that's the case, has anyone done anything to make their hardware safer for contact with wet, human skin?

Thanks!

/On a positive note, capsizing solo allowed me proof of concept for my new cheap righting bag. This big ass green bag worked great with a simple line tied to the bag, then over the righting line then over my shoulder. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00GFP5SI8/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new
Author:  SabresfortheCup [ Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
The Hobie 18 jib is unfortunately cut too big to move the blocks to the crossbar. It's actually a small genoa, in that it overlaps with the mainsail. Slightly better performance, but more of a hassle on the trampoline. I agree that the trampoline is crowded thanks to the jib sheet blocks and fairleads, and I've viewed them as a nuisance, but never really considered them a hazard. Either way, there's unfortunately not much that can be done about it. All the other Hobie cat designs have smaller jibs that don't overlap, which is why they have the blocks on the crossbar. However, as skipper I rarely find myself forward far enough to end up with the blocks in my way except maybe on a broad reach when I'm trying to get my weight forward. Is it possible you're too far forward on the trampoline in the tacks? They certainly get in the way of my crew at times, but nobody's ever really been injured by them on my boat.

Whenever I can tell that the boat is going over, I usually make a conscious effort to try to either sit on the deck edge (if hiking) or jump clear astern of the boat (if trapezing), to avoid getting caught on the boom or any of the trampoline gear or rigging, to avoid the types of injuries you've unfortunately experienced.

In terms of modifications that I've made, I do have "oschen" or "oxen" self locking blocks on my boat, which are much lower profile and don't "stand up" on the trampoline, leaving it less likely that anyone will get hurt on them, but they're not cheap... $300 each side. I'm not sure of any other cheap or minimally invasive changes that would move the blocks out of your way.
Author:  John Forbes [ Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
The answer is simple. Remove the jib tracks from the tramp track. Off. Gone. Forever!
Move the jib blocks on to the trampoline. It eliminates all the cuts and bruises and both you and your crew will LOVE IT!

Use Ronstan jib blocks, they have plastic cleats, plastic saddles, plastic beckets. Nothing to scratch you.

When you move the jib blocks to the trampoline you solve many issues.
1) no more smashed ankles
2) no more bruised bums or bruised glutes
3) no more corrosion between the stainless steel jib track and the alloy tramp track
4) less load on the gunwales
5) better jib sheet angle = easier to steer to
6) easier for crew to uncleat during tacks
7) less jib sheet length
8) looks better, more modern
9) you might even be able to point higher
10) you will have a much happier crew
11) it is cheaper if ever a new boat is ever built again (dreams are free!)
12) who doesn’t want a safer, smoother, faster, sexier, cheaper boat

Check out my boats Facebook page in the link below. There is a whole photo album dedicated to this jib block movement.

I’m happy to share any measurements you want. Just ask. The wind is free and so is my advice.
Author:  jds0912 [ Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
SabresfortheCup wrote:
The Hobie 18 jib is unfortunately cut too big to move the blocks to the crossbar. It's actually a small genoa, in that it overlaps with the mainsail. Slightly better performance, but more of a hassle on the trampoline. I agree that the trampoline is crowded thanks to the jib sheet blocks and fairleads, and I've viewed them as a nuisance, but never really considered them a hazard. Either way, there's unfortunately not much that can be done about it. All the other Hobie cat designs have smaller jibs that don't overlap, which is why they have the blocks on the crossbar. However, as skipper I rarely find myself forward far enough to end up with the blocks in my way except maybe on a broad reach when I'm trying to get my weight forward. Is it possible you're too far forward on the trampoline in the tacks? They certainly get in the way of my crew at times, but nobody's ever really been injured by them on my boat.

Whenever I can tell that the boat is going over, I usually make a conscious effort to try to either sit on the deck edge (if hiking) or jump clear astern of the boat (if trapezing), to avoid getting caught on the boom or any of the trampoline gear or rigging, to avoid the types of injuries you've unfortunately experienced.

In terms of modifications that I've made, I do have "oschen" or "oxen" self locking blocks on my boat, which are much lower profile and don't "stand up" on the trampoline, leaving it less likely that anyone will get hurt on them, but they're not cheap... $300 each side. I'm not sure of any other cheap or minimally invasive changes that would move the blocks out of your way.


Thanks for the info. I guess I do remember reading that it is technically a genoa. I'd consider a different jib (I dont race so not worried about class legal) but not sure I wanna sacrifice the sail area since I'm out in light wind half the year.

Yeah both times that I have messed myself up good It was during a tack. Was probably a little far forward since I was tacking the jib both times, but really just tried to scamper up to the high side. I'll probably just let the jib backwind longer from here on out until I'm able to get out on the wings, that way if we start to go over I'm in a safer position to bail out.

Thanks!
Author:  jds0912 [ Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
John Forbes wrote:
The answer is simple. Remove the jib tracks from the tramp track. Off. Gone. Forever!
Move the jib blocks on to the trampoline. It eliminates all the cuts and bruises and both you and your crew will LOVE IT!

Use Ronstan jib blocks, they have plastic cleats, plastic saddles, plastic beckets. Nothing to scratch you.

When you move the jib blocks to the trampoline you solve many issues.
1) no more smashed ankles
2) no more bruised bums or bruised glutes
3) no more corrosion between the stainless steel jib track and the alloy tramp track
4) less load on the gunwales
5) better jib sheet angle = easier to steer to
6) easier for crew to uncleat during tacks
7) less jib sheet length
8) looks better, more modern
9) you might even be able to point higher
10) you will have a much happier crew
11) it is cheaper if ever a new boat is ever built again (dreams are free!)
12) who doesn’t want a safer, smoother, faster, sexier, cheaper boat

Check out my boats Facebook page in the link below. There is a whole photo album dedicated to this jib block movement.

I’m happy to share any measurements you want. Just ask. The wind is free and so is my advice.


Wow lots of good info there! I'll definitely consider it - will involve taking my tramp off and finding a sewing machine though which I'm not keen on. Your boat looks amazing.
Author:  srm [ Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
Sounds like your boat has a burr or some sharp edge that you’re getting snagged on. I’ve sailed Hobie 18’s for over 30 years and I can only recall one time getting cut on a piece of hardware. I believe it was the inside of the jib traveler track on a borrowed boat that got my finger or toe (this was like 20 years ago so memory is a bit foggy).

Anyway, if I were you, I would go over the boat and look/feel around for any sharp edges. If you find one, use a flat file and/or some 100 grit sandpaper to knock off the edges. Overall these boats are quite safe and user friendly, and you should not be getting cut. I wouldn’t go about redesigning your jib system. Just find the source of the sharp spot and remove it.

sm
Author:  John Forbes [ Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
jds0912 wrote:

Wow lots of good info there! I'll definitely consider it - will involve taking my tramp off and finding a sewing machine though which I'm not keen on. Your boat looks amazing.


Chanting: take it off! Take it off! Take it off!

There’s five or six boats here now with same system as me and they are never going back. There are too many positives. It was used extensively in the Tornado class at the Olympics (before the introduction of the spinnaker) so it must be good.
Author:  RushMan [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
John Forbes wrote:
jds0912 wrote:

Wow lots of good info there! I'll definitely consider it - will involve taking my tramp off and finding a sewing machine though which I'm not keen on. Your boat looks amazing.


Chanting: take it off! Take it off! Take it off!

There’s five or six boats here now with same system as me and they are never going back. There are too many positives. It was used extensively in the Tornado class at the Olympics (before the introduction of the spinnaker) so it must be good.


Is it class legal?
Author:  srm [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
RushMan wrote:
John Forbes wrote:
jds0912 wrote:

Wow lots of good info there! I'll definitely consider it - will involve taking my tramp off and finding a sewing machine though which I'm not keen on. Your boat looks amazing.


Chanting: take it off! Take it off! Take it off!

There’s five or six boats here now with same system as me and they are never going back. There are too many positives. It was used extensively in the Tornado class at the Olympics (before the introduction of the spinnaker) so it must be good.


Is it class legal?


Not class legal.

sm
Author:  John Forbes [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
My boat is not Class legal but I don’t race in the one and only Hobie sanctioned event per year so I don’t care. I prefer to sail a boat that my daughter and I enjoy VERY much (plus it looks awesome, plus it is cheaper to maintain and upgrade) as opposed to being hung up about being class legal on a 20 year old boat. Plus our local sailing club has a standard policy for any boat that is not Class legal in a minor way it gets +3% to its yardstick and then +10% for any major modifications (deck sweeper, etc). My daughter thinks we’ve got the best Hobie 18 on the planet and if that is what it takes to get her Sailing each month then I’m all for it.
Author:  mike hensel [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
Why wouldn’t this be class legal? (Moving the jib cleat to the tramp)
The class rules state for H18, section 5.7:
Additional jib cleats may be installed to the owner’s and skippers specification, provided it does not structurally weaken the boat or interfere with other Hobie Cat Co. components
Author:  srm [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
Rule 5.7 allows you to add addition cleats, not relocate the entire block. Moving the entire block to the tramp would change the sheeting angle and violate class rule #1.

sm
Author:  Skipshot [ Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
John, I cruised your Facebook page full of catamaran porn, and you have my undying envy.
Author:  John Forbes [ Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jib Blocks on fwd crossbar?
The theory of my boat is simple. Do you want to sail a clunky old Hobie 18 designed from the 1970’s that hurts you, or do you want a simple, clean, attractive boat that doesn’t comply with Rule 5.7 of the class rules. My Hobie 18 is awesome to sail. Doesn’t wreck your body or wetsuit, is VERY crew friendly so attracts female and youth to the class and looks awesome. After four years of pure enjoyment With my daughter I’m still unsure why Hobie Cat Co are so vehemently against my boat. C’est la vie.
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