If I just use a main on the 18: Will pointing ability...

Hello again & thanks to all for the help I have received from this forum.

I am looking forward to sailing my H18 that I picked up late last fall and am curious about several things. I am a recreational sailor only, and will be sailing with 2 to 4 people usually. I hope to upgrade to a new-style square-top main before the spring but was curious about any issues if I don’t want to use the jib (I would like to get rid of the cleats and track and reduce setup / takedown time [trailer sailor]). Losing a little top end speed doesn’t concern me – I also sail a Holder 14 and have had a Wave and prior to that an H16. I’ve considered fitting a self-tacking jib on but remembered that I had a jib for the Wave but never bothered with it since it never seemed to affect the performance significantly with a couple people on board.

If I just use a main on the 18:
1. Will pointing ability / handling (hobbyhorsing?) be noticeably impacted?
2. Will tacking be much more difficult?
3. Will I still be carrying enough sail to still play around single and double trapezing?

I’m guessing that I would lose up to 20% of the speed potential (with the largest loss on calmer breezes) but maybe only 10% of the heeling force and a few degrees of pointing ability, especially if I keep the mast raked back a little and use a square top.

Does this sound right, or does the geometry of an 18 rely more heavily on a jib? Any input is appreciated.

TIA

According to my experience, tacking is almost impossible without involving the jib.

So, how does the H14, H17 and other uni rigged boats tack?
Maybe the H16 is harder to tack with out the jib, but the H18 should still tack when done properly.

Dagger boards will make it come around . And the hull shape of the H18 is similar to the H17 a uni solo boat.

A new square top main is going to blow off a bit on top in bigger air also, helping to depower.
That sail should be more shapeable too. Could be that in light air you will have similar power as before with the higher aspect main.

As far as pointing, you may see an increase in pointing ability. The downside will be running downwind. Most likely it will not be as fast there. Unless you get a spin kit, but more set up time. Oh well can't have every thing.

Maybe the experts will chime in, but you could have a "Big Uni Rigged boat for two there".
Could be a great boat for taking out non-sailors for rides.

_________________
Mike Hensel
'86 Hobie 18, '93 Hobie 14, '80 Hobie 14(restso in progress)
Wind in your sails, water in your shoes, great day!

Ever sailed a H18 solo?
Ever felt the wind was too much?
Try furling the jib, that's why it was built that way, so you can furl at a moment's notice, and reduce sail area and power.

Sure, tacking is a little trickier, but no more so when we sail a Wave or any other Unirig. In fact, it's a bit easier, with daggerboards on the H18 and using proper trim techniques. (Buy Rick White's DVD, and you'll see good technique taught well.)

Try it, you might like it. So that's the story on the jib.

For newbies who want to solo, get others to sail with you, as there is virtually NO WAY you can right the boat by yourself. When I sail solo, it is always 'in company of others'. Safety first.

30 cms of snow these past two days, can't wait for Spring.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm assuming you meant that in light air with a square top i might have similar power as before with BOTH original sails?

Thanks

Well, can't really say 'cos 'it depends', like so much in sailing.

Whirlwind's new square tops seem to be made of a crisper, harder fabric, especially compared with our Club's 20-25 year old sails. (My own H18 ius a 1988 model.) This means I have no real comparison of 'regular new sails to square top new sails'.

I would think that with less square footage of sail, (with the jib furled,) there will be less power, and usually less power = less speed. However, you can still 'point' and can still tack, perhaps not as well, but more than adequately.

My solo sailing was done carefully, as gusts are the challenge, not pure amount of wind. If I were sailing in a Trade Wind area, (where one can rely on the consistency of the wind), then I would sail solo with a jib in the right conditions.

Best answer is an on the water test - try both ways, and enjoy.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

The wave jib doesn't make much difference because of its size. The jib kit and spinaker kit for the wave as I understand it, are not there for performance reasons but for training reasons. Seems like I heard Matt Miller say that once in a post. Unirigs generally point higher than sloops, but at a significant loss of speed downwind. Set up time with the jib is only a few minutes more than with out, especially if you leave the sheets on the boat during trailering and use a shackle to attach sheets to the sail. With the extra people on board I would certainly want a jib on my boat. If I was solo I might consider leaving off. As for tacking without a jib that shouldn't be a problem if you use the "roll tack" method. Some people like to backwind the jib to bring the bows down but this is a speed killer.

I have sailed 16s and 18s on East Bay Traverse city for about 30 years mostly solo I can truly say, get yourself a used or new jib with a fuller and learn how to use it. Tacking with more than one person on board will become second nature, also if and I must say when you do end up pointing up on your hard tack and become stuck you can back fill that jib crank over the rudders and backwash onto your new tack. This is a trick that many of us use during heavy air and waves on th Bay. One more point the boat was designed for speed, and thats the point, even if your only out for an evening sail, let the boat fly use that jib.
Good Luck
Harvey

Anyone with experience on this . . . could there be a weatherhelm issue on the unirig versus the 2 sail sloop rig? Thanks to all for input.

The answer is yes you will have pointing problems as well as some tacking problems, the real problem is balance of sail load. I have under high wind loads been forced to roll up the jib trying to depower the rig, bad idea, well yes the speed reduced, however the balance of sail load went to the stern which became much more of a problem than the speed. It is true that with the jib on a cat will have trouble tacking, nature of the beast, but with a little practice one can overcome this little problem, but to sail without it, this will be a very uncomfortable ride for you and your crew, not to say how boring it would be.
Are you having trouble finding all the parts to set up your jib ass'y as well as the need for a jib? If so, there are many purchase options out there.
Good luck
Harvey