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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:01 am 
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Hi All, I am in the market for a new yak. I decided that my Feel Free Lure 13.5 is just too heavy for me to lug it around. I have decided on 3 pedal kayaks and the compass is on the list. I recently rented the compass, revo 11 and a tandem. We had a lot of fun but there were some noticeable differences between the Revo 11 and the Compass. Ahh!!! that SEAT!! - I am brand new to hobie and in a matter of seconds was in love with the Vantage CT seat in the Revo 11. I have a bad back and the vantage ct seat had great lumbar support. The seat on the compass, after enjoying the Revo 11, felt like a cheap seat you buy at walmart. The seat would rise up while peddling fast and my back was constantly hurting. The bungies were a joke to say the least. Did I mention how I loved that Vantage seat? The next issue I experienced was that the Compass had no side handles. Side handles are really helpful in tieing down the kayak and carrying or lifting into a truck without anyone else help. The last issue I had with the compass was standing. I am coming from a 36" wide kayak with lots of stand-ability. The Compass, while more stable than the Revo 11, didn't seem to have a great standing platform. I believe most of these issues can be remedied but I wanted to get Compass owner's ideas and help to see if the search for the holy grail should come to an end.

My Research on the Vantage seat:
I swapped the seat out of the Revo 11 and put it on the Compass. Lots of room but no chair post to sit the seat on. I measured the distance of the chair post and found that it was exactly the same width between the compass seat risers as the Revo 11 (I think it was 23" but can't remember). The one thing i did notice though is when the back of the Vantage seat was raised the legs were sitting on the curve of the hull and the legs would keep buckling back under. I think this can be fixed by moving the seat post to the front slightly but this may cause issues with finding a seat bar wide enough to work on the compass.

1. Has anyone attempted to install the post and swap the seats? If so where did you purchase the seat post and how did you pull it off?
2. With the lighter weight of the Compass it really needs side carry handles. Has anyone put side handles on and is it safe to do so?
3. Has anyone installed the H bar and was it worth it or are there other options to help with balance?

Hopefully I am clear enough with what I am trying to do. I really like to go Hobie because I like the idea of putting the peddles up without pulling the drive. BUT if I can't do these mods then I am going to be forced to go to Old Town's Topwater PDL Angler or Radar 115. I even thought about trying to mod the Topwater PDL to accept the hobie drive but something tells me that this may be a long road.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:04 pm
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Location: Northeast TN
I'm new here too and to kayaking in general. Still researching to buy (probably) a Compass. I've read a lot that it's easy to strap the seat down wrong which causes it to bounce up as you described. Could that have been your issue?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 919
Location: Lake Park, GA
GunTotnHippie wrote:
Hi All, I am in the market for a new yak. I decided that my Feel Free Lure 13.5 is just too heavy for me to lug it around. I have decided on 3 pedal kayaks and the compass is on the list. I recently rented the compass, revo 11 and a tandem. We had a lot of fun but there were some noticeable differences between the Revo 11 and the Compass. Ahh!!! that SEAT!! - I am brand new to hobie and in a matter of seconds was in love with the Vantage CT seat in the Revo 11. I have a bad back and the vantage ct seat had great lumbar support. The seat on the compass, after enjoying the Revo 11, felt like a cheap seat you buy at walmart. The seat would rise up while peddling fast and my back was constantly hurting. The bungies were a joke to say the least. Did I mention how I loved that Vantage seat? The next issue I experienced was that the Compass had no side handles. Side handles are really helpful in tieing down the kayak and carrying or lifting into a truck without anyone else help. The last issue I had with the compass was standing. I am coming from a 36" wide kayak with lots of stand-ability. The Compass, while more stable than the Revo 11, didn't seem to have a great standing platform. I believe most of these issues can be remedied but I wanted to get Compass owner's ideas and help to see if the search for the holy grail should come to an end.

My Research on the Vantage seat:
I swapped the seat out of the Revo 11 and put it on the Compass. Lots of room but no chair post to sit the seat on. I measured the distance of the chair post and found that it was exactly the same width between the compass seat risers as the Revo 11 (I think it was 23" but can't remember). The one thing i did notice though is when the back of the Vantage seat was raised the legs were sitting on the curve of the hull and the legs would keep buckling back under. I think this can be fixed by moving the seat post to the front slightly but this may cause issues with finding a seat bar wide enough to work on the compass.

1. Has anyone attempted to install the post and swap the seats? If so where did you purchase the seat post and how did you pull it off?
2. With the lighter weight of the Compass it really needs side carry handles. Has anyone put side handles on and is it safe to do so?
3. Has anyone installed the H bar and was it worth it or are there other options to help with balance?

Hopefully I am clear enough with what I am trying to do. I really like to go Hobie because I like the idea of putting the peddles up without pulling the drive. BUT if I can't do these mods then I am going to be forced to go to Old Town's Topwater PDL Angler or Radar 115. I even thought about trying to mod the Topwater PDL to accept the hobie drive but something tells me that this may be a long road.


Welcome to the Compass forum! Every Hobie is different, so comparing the positives and negatives of each and try to make a combined kayak is not the best way to look at it. The Compass was made to be an introductory Mirage Drive kayak at a lower price point. That is not a bad thing. The Compass hull is one of the best hulls that Hobie has built. It's like having a cross between a Revo and a Pro Angler. You basically have a clean slate to modify and customize to fit your fishing needs.

There are built in hand holds beside the seat on the inside walls of the Compass. You can add handle straps as Hobie has several varieties. Or you can add H-Rails like I did. The seat is rising up on you because it's not installed correctly. The bungee strap attached to the eye on each side of the seat base to provides a little pressure to hold the seat down, but the key is hooking the straps from the back of the seat to the padeyes on the sides. You will get a solid secure seat that way. Most if not all of the complaints regarding seat movement is because the seat was not installed correctly.

It's not the same seat that comes on the Revo, Outback, etc. There is room for improvement, but if you want a more high-tech seat, then buy a Revo or Outback. They cost more money.

Look at my Compass setup post and that will give you some ideas. I do use a small pad to sit on and that makes the seat very comfortable for me even after putting 8-10 miles in a day on the Compass. Love my Compass and have close to 150 nautical miles on it since purchasing it last fall. My dealer tells me that the Compass is outselling the Outback for his dealership. Hobie missed the ball in 2 areas related to the Compass. One was the paddle bungee for securing the paddle. The other was the seat related to the bottom seat frame and comfort depending on the individual. I am confident that both those areas are being addressed for the 2019 models.

It's a great fishing and kayaking platform regardless as most of us have made slight adjustments for those 2 areas to make the Compass our favorite ride. I have owned 3 Pro Anglers and a Revo 11. The Compass is my choice for my weekly inshore fishing. Tight lines!

_________________
Steve Stubbs
USAF (retired)

SeaDek Fishing Team
Unfair Lures Pro Staff
Ziptailz Ambassador

2015 Pro Angler 14 - Papaya
2018 Compass - Sea Grass


Last edited by SRAces on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:04 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Northeast TN
SRAces, I came across your setup last week, it's gorgeous! As hard as it is, I may wait for the 2019s to see what they change.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:35 am
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SRAces wrote:
Welcome to the Compass forum! Every Hobie is different, so comparing the positives and negatives of each and try to make a combined kayak is not the best way to look at it.


You sound like an Apple salesmen. "The Iphone is perfect with all its flaws." lol kidding. The seat was installed incorrectly because if installed correctly then the seat back sits forward and basically you end up kneeing yourself in the head. lol I just don't understand how you can get comfortable when the seat straps are clearly too short. Two thumbs up for the ability to add handles. I get the cost factor and market segment (or their perception of the market segment), like mountain bikes, I would be willing to pay more money for a lighter weight, standing, peddle drive yak. I think I am pushing my purchase off till the end of August. Let's hope Hobie makes those changes.

Off topic subject. Can anyone point me to some actual data that supports that the Mirage Drive is more efficient than a prop drive? I can't seem to find anything outside of a couple of videos of tug of war or racing. I keep seeing people post that the drives are more efficient but I haven't seen any actual data to support their hypothesis.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:07 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
The straps were made longer a while back. The straps when extended and the seat mesh properly adjusted is comfortable.

But... knee yourself with the pedals? Did you understand that the pedals can be adjusted well forward. Fits 6 foot plus people easily.

The MirageDrive is clearly more efficient than a prop drive. Heavier kayaks and boats at slower speeds excel due to the amount of water the drive pushes. If you look at the size of the fins when spread out, they are 2-3 times larger than the props and can be used in near zero water depth too. You would need a narrow, light hull to be fast with a prop, but they will never have the torque that the MirageDrive has.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:18 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
The straps were made longer a while back. The straps when extended and the seat mesh properly adjusted is comfortable.

But... knee yourself with the pedals? Did you understand that the pedals can be adjusted well forward. Fits 6 foot plus people easily.

The MirageDrive is clearly more efficient than a prop drive. Heavier kayaks and boats at slower speeds excel due to the amount of water the drive pushes. If you look at the size of the fins when spread out, they are 2-3 times larger than the props and can be used in near zero water depth too. You would need a narrow, light hull to be fast with a prop, but they will never have the torque that the MirageDrive has.


The straps were short on the kayak I demoed. I was making a point that the seat is tilted forward which puts my face closer to my knees when peddling. As far as being more efficient could you send me the data to support that? The width of a paddle is bigger than the mirage drive but its not faster. My point is that without actual data and scientific study the speed or torque of the drive being more efficient is a perception thing (unless someone has done the research?). I would argue that comparing the Mirage drive to a mountain bike. The mirage drive is like being in a lower gear which tires you out sooner. The gearing of the Slayer 6:1 is going to be in a higher gear which is going to top out sooner. Hull design and weight are also two factors that make it hard to compare. I've watched a few races on YouTube and noticed that the Hobie peddlers look like they tire sooner but that maybe because they were out of shape. I am also not saying that the Mirage drive isn't a really cool system. I just don't think that the Mirage drive blows the competition out of the water anymore.


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 Post subject: tried out the jackson fd
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Still debating if this compass is the one for me as I got to drive 3hrs away to even demo,Went out to a demo night got a bit of time in the Jackson Fd Cruise, seats awesome, pedal not so much after a few short jaunts(20 min.) I was tired out, and I'm in ok shape, that reverse is noisy too, and tracking is a huge issue as there was 10km winds,cross another off the list. Tried out that the outback and I was able to go constant for an hour, tracking was better, How's the compass as I'll just be doing freshwater for no?.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 919
Location: Lake Park, GA
lakerman wrote:
Still debating if this compass is the one for me as I got to drive 3hrs away to even demo,Went out to a demo night got a bit of time in the Jackson Fd Cruise, seats awesome, pedal not so much after a few short jaunts(20 min.) I was tired out, and I'm in ok shape, that reverse is noisy too, and tracking is a huge issue as there was 10km winds,cross another off the list. Tried out that the outback and I was able to go constant for an hour, tracking was better, How's the compass as I'll just be doing freshwater for no?.


The Compass should track just as well as the Outback, if not a little better. It is quieter on the water than the Outback as far as hull slap. If you are moving in winds with any decent speed, the Compass will track very well. I am 63 years old and put an average of 6-7 miles on the water each trip in the Compass. I usually don't feel tired when I am on the water. It's about an hour after I get home that it catches up with me...lol!

_________________
Steve Stubbs
USAF (retired)

SeaDek Fishing Team
Unfair Lures Pro Staff
Ziptailz Ambassador

2015 Pro Angler 14 - Papaya
2018 Compass - Sea Grass


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:44 am 
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Comparing every kind of kayak is useless. Just go demo as many as you like and find what suits your needs or is as close which allows you to tweak it to your liking and get on the water. There is not going to be one kayak that is going to offer everything that everyone wants. Reading the post of what people demand on a kayak is ridiculous. Most of those things are selections that someone such as myself and probably others do not want or only as an option to add.

For me what I wanted when I sold my 2017 Outback was a light weight/lower priced hybrid hobie that is exactly what it is a cross between all 3 (PA/Outback/Revo) but yet for the most part a blank open slate to do what I wished with it and since I am pretty much a minimalist and simpleton I added just what I wanted. Adding a few track rails and some various items from Yak Gear and Yak Attack I have been able to add various functions that I can put on and take off. For me the biggest issue is the seat bottom/upgrade of the seat connections and ability to drop the seat lower (I like to sit side saddle in shallow water and crab walk). They have or are addressing the seat connections. The bottom portion can only be done with a new design as well as being able to drop it into lower on the yak.

Comparing the drives is useless as well as again it comes down to what and how you use the yak and what your are comfortable with and that can only be achieved with time on the water. I don't race my kayak so its not problem for me to get an easy steady cadence with the marage drive and go all day. I have actually been a cyclist for going on 35 years and you would think I would find the peddle drives to be the bomb but actually for me its just the opposite I find the peddle drive does not translate well to the kayak but that is just me. Find Pumping rather than spinning is more efficent and also allows me to feather the drive in very shallow water.


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