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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:35 pm
Posts: 12
I was trying, but someone wasn't getting the picture that I wasn't interested in their comments after reading them arguing for 7 pages with other people.

I pilot a Hobie 16, and that is what forum this topic is in (Hobie 16) as it is all I know from hobie (outside of also owning a TI which is a slug in all but the lightest winds, only because it has that foot drive :p).

Exactly, the aussie halyard still applies force to one side of the mast, albeit reduced. My solution is fixing one end of the halyard to the base of the port side of the mast, running it up to the tang to one side of a double block, into a single block that attaches to the jib, back through the double block and down the starboard side of the mast. This gives a 2:1, and places half of the load on each side of the mast.

mmiller wrote:
mrarmyant wrote:
First, The jib halyard is not meant to hold a mast up like a stay is on most sailboats


Let's try to keep it civil here. mrarmyant, what Hobie model do you sail?

On the Hobie 16 the jib has a luff wire. As noted, the "forestay" on this boat is only loaded when the jib is not hoisted. The jib halyard is used to load the jib luff wire and overcome the load on the "forestay". The jib luff wire assumes the job of the forestay and holds the mast forward while the shoruds hold the mast aft and in port starboard column. These three wire are the mast stays.

This is where the discussion about the Aussie (been standard on the Hobie 16 for many years now) halyard and the effect on mast compression and bend.

The original jib halyard system is more like what you have been writing about. The halyard passed through a block at the mast tang (hounds). Then down the side of the mast to a point where there was a 3:1 purchase to gain tension on the halyard. You have to tension the halyard to pull the mast forward and tension against the shrouds. Proper rig tension on the 16 requires the shrouds to be taut and not allow the jib luff to bend to leeward while under sail. This tension placed a considerable 1:1 load on the halyard wire up the side of the mast which acted like a bow string and caused the mast to bend. This bend would have to be overcome during each tack and would sometimes cause the mast to counter rotate.

In comes the Aussie system.

Image

This placed the purchase between the jib head and tang. The load on the halyard line running down the side of the mast is greatly reduced. This load is not enough to cause the type of mast bend (bow) as seen in the original system. The mast now stands straight under significant rig tension. Tacks are far easier and counter rotation is less of an issue.

Also... there are many models of Hobie Cats that do have spreaders and diamond wires. Hobie 18, 20, 21SE 18SX ... all have spreaders. These are used on larger rigs or rigs with less than sufficient mast extrusions to support the sail loads without excessive mast bend. These spreaders can be adjusted fore and aft and diamond wires can be adjusted tight to loose to allow the mast to bend to a point. The Aussies liked to sweep the H18 spreaders aft and tighten the diamonds to induce mast bend directly aft to help flatten the main in high winds.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:27 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
The new boats have the jib halyard turning block (cheek block) located on the centerline of the mast, maybe a foot or so up from the bottom. The Aussie halyard runs straight down the center of the mast, around the block, and up to the cleat. Everything is on centerline and it eliminates the need for what you’re describing.

On older boats with the traditional halyard arrangement, with the cheek block on the side of the mast, you can run the jib halyard line over the turning block, back up to the pulley on the halyard wire, and then cleat off on the main halyard cleat (on the opposite side of the mast from the cheek block). Doing this will pull the halyard wire onto centerline as well and the haylard load stays on centerline. Main halyard gets cleated off on the “jib halyard” cleat.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:35 pm
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An excellent solution! Thanks!

srm wrote:
The new boats have the jib halyard turning block (cheek block) located on the centerline of the mast, maybe a foot or so up from the bottom. The Aussie halyard runs straight down the center of the mast, around the block, and up to the cleat. Everything is on centerline and it eliminates the need for what you’re describing.

On older boats with the traditional halyard arrangement, with the cheek block on the side of the mast, you can run the jib halyard line over the turning block, back up to the pulley on the halyard wire, and then cleat off on the main halyard cleat (on the opposite side of the mast from the cheek block). Doing this will pull the halyard wire onto centerline as well and the haylard load stays on centerline. Main halyard gets cleated off on the “jib halyard” cleat.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 686
Location: Clinton, Mississippi
srm wrote:
On older boats with the traditional halyard arrangement, with the cheek block on the side of the mast, you can run the jib halyard line over the turning block, back up to the pulley on the halyard wire, and then cleat off on the main halyard cleat (on the opposite side of the mast from the cheek block). Doing this will pull the halyard wire onto centerline as well and the haylard load stays on centerline. Main halyard gets cleated off on the “jib halyard” cleat.

sm


My preferred alternative for rec sailing with the traditional jib halyard arrangement (pretty sure it's not class legal)….

Shackle something like this micro fiddle block to the stay adjuster at the bridle and do all your jib halyard tension setting there. You have to tie it off and store the excess halyard there as well which is a little cumbersome. However, it keeps the load on the centerline, frees up the main halyard cleat, and keeps all those jib halyard pieces, parts, lines, and wires out of the way to help minimize jib batten hang-ups in light air.

http://www.apsltd.com/micro-fiddle-block.html

bob

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Hobie 16


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