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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:43 am 
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When I am tacking , sailing up wind, and I want turn and go the other way, should i be turning up wind with the bow crossing 12 oclock ( assuming wind is coming from 12 oclock ) or should I be turning down wind with the bow crossing 6 oclock? I keep getting stuck in irons going across 12 and when i go 6 I lose a lot of ground trying to get back to a point on land.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:13 am 
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I'm also a newbie - so I may get [quickly] corrected for messing this up, but:

If wind is coming from 12 o'clock and you're sailing upwind, you're probably at 10:30 or 1:30 (45* off wind, either way, 90* total) To tack, you want to get from one, to the other, passing through the wind at 12 o'clock. Keep the jib sheeted (will backwind) to help you move across. Make sure your speed is up, turn smoothly, don't push the tiller all the way over or the rudders will act as brakes of a sort.

If you're turning down to 6 o'clock (downwind) then you're jibing, but then you're going around 270* to get back to your desired point of sail instead of 90*.

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How much wind are you sailing in? I find 4-5 is about the minimum required to cruise around and be able to tack without getting stuck in irons.

Edit: corrected times, was thinking 24 hour clock...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:09 pm 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
I'm not a rookie and get into irons often. Crew weight is a huge factor on a light boat.

A few things to think about when preparing to come about. Get your momentum up as much as possible. Center the mainsail. At highest speed, ease the rudder over to new course. Too much rudder will destroy your momentum. When you see mainsail pop to other side, quickly ease it out. Leave the jib on the wrong side (backing the jib) until it pushes the bow over to the other side of the wind. You won't need to back the jib once you become skillful. Backing the jib is a good skill to have in your bag of tricks. It will quickly get you out of irons, and even quicker when you offset the rudder.

Tacking thru 6 oclock is actually called a gybe and should only be done it light air. Important to center the mainsail when gybing to lessen the shock on the rig as stern passes thru the eye of the wind.

My old SC21 had a forward tramp. It would not tack at all with crew forward of the mast.

Cats tack slower than monos because they are so wide. But with practice you will get it. Just don't put yourself in a pinch. Plan your tacks to allow for drift. Never tack upwind of a static object that is nearby.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
jdzl covered it, more or less.

If you're sailing upwind, you want to tack to change directions (bow crosses the wind). If you're sailing downwind, you want to jibe to change directions (stern crosses the wind).

Tacking a catamaran is a bit of an art form and there have been tons of discussions on how to do it on this forum.

The main thing is to get up as much speed as possible while sailing a close hauled course before you begin the tack. Both sails (main and jib) should be traveled all the way inboard and the sheets pulled in tight. Uncleat the mainseet but do NOT let it out. Initiate the turn smoothly. As the bow reaches head to wind, let out at least 3 feet of mainsheet and move your body over to the new side of the boat (notice we did not touch the jib sheet yet!). Keep the rudders turned throughout the manouver until the mainsail battens pop over onto the new side. Then uncleat the jib and pull in to 90% on the new tack. The boat should start sailing forward. Straighten the rudders and begin bringing in the mainsail and jib to 100%.

It's also very helpful to learn how to do a "K" turn. If you end up in irons, release a good 5 feet of mainsheet and push the boom and tiller away from yourself. The boat will backup and turn onto the new tack.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:19 pm 
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Location: Swansboro, NC
If you do get caught in irons don't panic. Let the boat back up and push your rudders to get the correct angle.Keep the jib tight on the wrong side of the intended tack, loosen main sail and let the jib do the work. once you are out of the no sail zone, pop your jib pull your rudders and ease the main tighter. Gain a little speed then adjust everything. The cause of the stall is usually turning too quick and loosing speed or loosening the jib before the boat has turned far enough. It happens to every one from time to time so don't worry too much about blowing a tack. The more you sail the better your feel for when to do what and what to not do.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Location: South Carolina
Also, you should practice stopping the boat, putting it in irons, backing the boat (sail it backwards), and turning out of irons to port or starboard. All of these skills come in handy for different reasons. Weight location impacts where you turn. From Irons, have skipper and crew sit on the one side at the back of the tramp, make sure you know if the boat is moving forward or backward, put the rudder over the right way and see where the bow goes. Then try the other side from Irons.

I get stuck too. Especially when turning on the other side of a specific island used as a race mark.

Regards,
Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Wow , 1st time using a forum , Thank you guys for the quick responses and great information. I am eb won't even tell you what I have been doing wrong all this time, but generally I have cut fast and hard and tried to whip it around with the sail let out about 75% , I have been thrown, dumped, tossed, hit , hit many crew mates and backed drifted into my neighbors dock and a turtled it. Fortunately (or dangerously) I am blessed to live on the lake with gracious neighbors with sturdy docks. I started in 2011 with a mini sun fish, then a Hobie14, to my current Hobie16. I should have gotten on this site earlier, I live on a the west side of the lake on a peninsula and we normally have 10-15mph winds 70% of the time. It has been adventure. I can't wait to try out all of your suggestions. Basically change everything I have been doing. What about Trapeze harness, It seem scary to be tied on when I dump it, ( which is often due to the high winds) maybe if I was using the harness is came with, I would not be dumping it so often.
Joel
Hobie 16


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, FL
One thing nice about letting your jib stay in a backwind position (longer than needed for a tack) when solo sailing is that the boat is sort of in a lull at this time and it gives you some time to rearrange things on your tramp (lines, travelers, drinks, etc.) before you decide to start sailing again.

In a good wind, once you let your jib blow across and start sheeting it in, be prepared to take off like a rocket.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:59 am 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
hang in there (pun), you'll get it figured out. small boats are great teachers. They let you know real quick whenever something is wrong. you can sail big boats wrong all day and never even know it.

Crew weight is everything on a 300 pound boat with a 30 foot mast. Think of your bag of bones as the boat's only ballast. Moving aft during your tack, may help it come about a little quicker too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:01 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
Inthewind wrote:
but generally I have cut fast and hard and tried to whip it around with the sail let out about 75% ..... I started in 2011 with a mini sun fish...


That technique will work fine with a sunfish (or any monohull sailboat). Doesn't work on a catamaran though. As soon as you release the mainsheet, all is lost on a cat - it simply won't turn into the wind. You need to stay sheeted in until you are head to wind and THEN you dump the sheet. It needs to be a smooth, gradual turn as well.

Quote:
What about Trapeze harness, It seem scary to be tied on when I dump it, ( which is often due to the high winds) maybe if I was using the harness is came with, I would not be dumping it so often.


I would steer clear of the trap until you get the basics nailed down and are comfortable handling the boat from the tramp. If you're capsizing a lot already, then adding the trap into the mix isn't going to help. If the wind on your lake is very gusty/shifty, then using the trap may be quite a challenge.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:29 am 
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srm ---- Thanks for the advice, My issue is I am normally in a 15mph + gusty wind with my bow pointed at 9 to 10 o'clock and my sheet let out pretty far to keep my speed under control due chop and lots of powerboats and seadoo. In preparing for a tack as I pull in the mainsheet and cut up wind I REALLY Start moving fast and I am worried about turning /tacking that fast. ... so are you saying to pull the sheet in tight , turn at a high rate a speed but let out the sheet as soon as my bow passes 12' o'clock ? Also should the turn be wide, on my sunfish I would whip it around a buoy like a Barrel Racer at the Rodeo and hardly lose in any speed or time. Sometimes my butt would just slide across the stern and I would keep my feet hooked in the hiking strap. I would do all this while laying back a letting the Boom swing by. It was pretty exhilarating in 15-20 sustained winds in my little sunfish. Unfortunately Hobie 16 keeps throwing my like this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:44 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
The Hobie and the Sunfish are two very different animals when it comes to tacking. As long as you stay upright, you pretty much can't screw up tacking the Sunfish. They will pivot on a dime.

The Hobie takes a lot more refinement of the technique. It sounds like you are just beam reaching or close reaching back and forth. You try sailing an upwind course before entering the tack. Turn the boat upwind so the sails are sheeted in hard and work on keeping up as much speed as possible on an upwind heading. After that, it all comes down to timing. Keep the sails sheeted in tight until you come head to wind. After you reach head to wind, dump mainsheet, but keep the rudder held over so the boat continues to turn through the wind. Then pop the jib and slowly start bringing the sails in on the new tack.

sm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:49 am 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
If you have any crew near the mast, have them slide back during the tack, and then quickly move back up once on new course.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:22 pm 
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Success! thanks all for the advice. I finally got it, turning wider help, uncleating the main sheet so I could dump the sail quicker to allow it to pop help enormously, and then simply pushing the boom and the traveler car over by hand also sometimes helped me get going. I was able to go places on the lake a I have never been. Thanks again for all your advice guys. I was even able to to my first mate "wife" out there and we did not have to switch places after the tack. She did great with the tiller and mainsheet lines


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