Pitchpole

Hello,

Yesterday was my second time I sailed my h16. I am a noob and have just little experience in sailing when I had my previous self-made small catamaran. Anyways, the question is in the topic. How in hell do I stop this thing when the wind is coming from my stern? I know that when I go against the wind or sideways to the wind, when the (censored) hits the fan I simply release the main sheet or turn to the wind and the cat stops. But what do I do when the wind is behind me? If I release the sheet it will go even faster.. I imagine..If I try to pull it in, I would not have enough time before the pitchpole. If i turn the boat it will capsize.. soo, please help a newbie

Best regards:
Alex

PS: also in which case do I move the main sheet block on its rail, to the side of the boat? When the wind is behind me?

hmmm good question, it's my first year sailing anything, but I'll give you "what I'd do" and wait for the correction and correct answers from those who actually know. First of all let me say I've never sailed in enough wind to pitchpole sailing downwind personally maybe 12-15 mph wind has been the best I've had.
If i was I wouldn't let myself get into that angle that far, meaning I'd feather out of it way before that happened. = Tack more.... staying safe, but on a larger body of water perhaps thats not an option?

On the P.s. I move it out going down wind, and sometimes in light wind it seems to help, in good wind i keep mine maybe 3-6" off center.
Looking forward to the real answers to come,........ Good luck and just keep trying different things with the boat that's what I've been doing all summer.

I'm a nube too, but it's too hot outside to do what I've got to do, so I'll enter the conversation until some experts get online and answer your question for real. In general, you move the traveler for your main (the position of the block) out when you go downwind and on reaches. You want the traveler all the way in when you are going upwind, but for downwind you want it all the way out. This may have been your issue if you had the traveler in. If you're ever having problems keeping the boat flat, you can ease out the traveler and it will de-power the sail.

If you want to slow down while heading downwind, get the wind directly behind you. (Sailing directly downwind is one of your slower points of sail.) The force of the wind on the sail will tilt the boat forward, so keep your weight and your crew's weight further aft to avoid a pitchpole. You'll also want to balance the weight between port and starboard to keep the boat flat if it's feeling unstable.

If none of that works, that's a REALLY windy day, and your boat is being overpowered. I can think of a few options in this case. Getting a heavier crew, or additional crew might help. Were you or your crew out on the trapeze? I have very little experience on the trapeze, and I assume I'll do better in heavier wind when I'm (or my crew is) more comfortable on the trapeze.

If those don't work, or aren't viable options for you that day, I'd get off the water in that kind of wind. If it's your first day, you don't learn to ski or snowboard on the expert slope. The wind and water are powerful forces, and you were on the expert run.

Pat

With a strong wind, reef the sail if you're able. The older Hobie sails have reef points, however I hear that the newer sails do not have reefing points. Also, keeping the traveller closer to center presents less sail, so you'll slow down. I'm definitely not a expert, but I've avoided the pitchpole in heavy wind using these methods ,(as well as moving my weight aft as previously mentioned)

Hello,

Thank you all for your answers. Yes, my boat is older model so yes, i have two holes in my main sail for reefing. I just wanted to add, the winds were just minor and we were 4 ppl on board so pitchpole or capsize were not even close. I am asking what to do if I am alone and the winds get stronger next time I sail. So the question remains. How to stop when the wind is behind me? I figure, I should pull the main sheet in? I know it wont even go that fast when the wind is in my stern, but still I need to know what to do when I am using this kind of wind.

Everything else is awesome, I love my boat, I cant wait for the next weekend.

sashmeister - How to stop when the wind is behind you???? I don't believe that you can! You can only stop or sail slowly backwards if you're pointed INTO THE WIND. It's easy to sail downwind if the wind is light, but it can be very dangerous if the wind is strong. Sheet in, traveler in, keep your weight and that of your crew back, keep your main sail full.....The last thing you want is to have the main sail luff and have an unintended jibe in high wind. It's dangerous for you and your crew and hard on your equipment. You don't want to have any surprises! Sometimes it's impossible to avoid going downwind or jibing, but pay attention and be careful about what you're doing. Plan your moves. Practice often in lighter winds so that you'll be more confident in stronger winds. Don't go out in very strong winds if you can avoid it. Be Safe and Have Fun! Rich

Thats what I thought. No sailing downwind for me then. lol

On a broad reach, the best way to slow down would be to sheet IN (bring the main & jib closer to centerline) and/or turn downwind further, but be very careful not to jibe (unexpectedly swinging the boom across the trampoline is never a good thing!). Catamaran's are their fastest on a reach, just slightly downwind. turning either upwind or downwind from that point will slow the boat down. Intentionally ruining your sail trim will also slow you down - closing the slot, backwinding the jib, over/under sheeting, etc.

If there's a lot of wind that day, reefing the main will de-power the sail for all points of sail (note that in high winds, this will actually help you go faster, as the boat will be less prone to listing/flying a hull - you don't need more power in those conditions).

If you actually want to stop the boat going downwind, that's not really possible. The only effective ways to stop the boat completely are to steer a close-hauled (upwind) course and let the sails out, or go into irons. You can also sheet in the jib, let out the main and then try to steer into the wind - the boat will just sit there, because the rudders can't force the bows into the wind when the wind is pushing the jib (and therefore the bows) away from it.

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Mike

'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921 RIP
'78 H18 (unnamed) sail #14921
'08 H16 sail #114312
'97 H21SC sail #238

You are at most risk of a pitchpole when you accelerate. This happens when you get hit with a gust or as you bear away from close hauled.

When bearing away you want to keep the boat going as fast as possible and make sure the jib is uncleated ready to dump. Weight right back on the boat and try and make a nice fast gentle turn. If you turn too hard I find that you will stall the rudders and slow the hulls right down but the rig wants to keep going and over you go...

Once you are already going downwind it becomes a case of watching for puffs and steering down with them as they hit. I keep the traveller right out and the main blocks about 1 and a half feet apart roughly. Easing the main too much downwind will let to top twist out and make pitchpoling more likely so don't ease too much. Having it on too tight though risks you getting knocked over sideways if you get forced up by a wave or a gust.

One thing you have to learn by doing is steering through waves, sometimes you just get unlucky with power boat chop and just drive straight into the back of a wave and over you go.

Generally for me the wind has to be up over 18 knots before it gets hairy, under that it should be very manageable.

If you're heading downwind and want to slow down, or nearly stop, bring the traveler in to center, haul in tight on the sheet and put the stern directly into the wind. At that point the wind can't act against the sail and you will slow/stop pretty quickly. You won't go much if any faster than whatever the current/drift rate is, plus what little effect the wind has on the boat itself.

If I were going to post an answer to this question, Tom's answer would be exactly what I would say !!!

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Happy Sailing,

David

Well I find that a little hard to believe. When your sailing downwind your traveler is all the way out right? And your main sheet is also out. So imagine this.. the wind is getting stronger out of the sudden, the boat starts going more and more and you start pulling on that sheet.. it will take you what? 5 seconds or more. The hoibie will be a submarine by then. And also the more you pull until the traveler reaches the center the faster will the boat go in that moment. This is what I was trying to explain in my first post. When you are sailing upwind you just let go the sheet and everything is fine in a matter of half a second.

Anyways, its just better not to sail downwind until I get more comfortable with this cat. Knowing how much wind does it take to pichpole or capsize. Coz right now, I have no idea. Every time the boat starts to run a bit faster I get the filling it will just roll over lol.

If you are on a broad reach (that's how beachcats go downwind) and you start to feel overpowered (about to pitchpole) the number one thing you want to do is steer lower. This allows you to to use the buoyancy of both bows (what little there is) more than just the leeward bow. If your sheet is not all the way out, sheeting out more will dump some power. This works because at this point (since you are already travelled fairly far out) sheeting out more mostly causes the top of the main to twist off more, dumping some air. Obviously, getting your weight further back, while doing the other two, will help as well. Sheeting and traveling way in can be used after you have recovered to sail downwind more slowly as you proceed.

sashmeister - We were all new and uncomfortable at this at one time. Just be patient! You should have a righting line or a righting system and know how to use it - just in case....Always stay in your comfort zone! You'll get more comfortable and gain more confidence over time. Practice going downwind in light wind. Remember - these boats are very weight-sensitive, so experiment with your weight up front, middle of the boat and all the way back. Also, experiment with the traveler and main sheet. See what makes the boat go faster and slower. You want to do just the opposite of what it takes to make the boat go faster when you're overpowered. Practice jibing in very light wind. Practice without the boat by visualizing while you're at the dinner table or laying in bed before you drift off to sleep. Athletes practice visualization, and so should you. Take your time; be patient; We've all been there at one time or another. Be safe and have fun!

You can take all the advice, read all the books and watch all the videos........nothing will take the place of good old experience. Time on the water is the key. One of the things that makes sailing so exciting is all the variables. My experiences still tell me that Tom gave the best advice. I use to pitch pole so much that the Los Angeles County Lifeguards asked me to train all their staff on "Catamaran Capsize and Rescue !!!" Seriously !!! BTW, you're not a REAL Cat sailor until you've capsized a couple of times !!!

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Happy Sailing,

David