Return to Hobie.com

Hobie Forums

It is currently Mon May 28, 2018 2:38 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:30 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:28 pm
Posts: 134
I've heard of some people making a righting pole out of windsurf masts and using the universal joint. That way, you don't really need all that aluminum and the universal joint allows for your upward angle.

Does anybody have examples of that? It's a simpler design and I'd be interested on putting one on my boat. Those new carbon fiber righting poles are light and wouldn't hinder my racing performance much.

-Evan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
Well, I had promised and update for when I finally used the pole in the water...and to be honest, I have yet to even deploy it. So far, my focus has been on sailing the boat in my limited free time, and I have gotten better at controlling the boat. Sunvista, you have a valid point, and to be honest, looking back i probably would have made/bought shroud extenders instead of this...but whatever. It was a fun school project. When I made this pole (and post) I had only sailed the boat for a few months, and didnt know exactly how the shroud extenders worked...I had heard some people saying that the mast could pop out of the socket.
Also, I rather liked the idea of the windsurf mast, but frankly there arent many windsurfers in the southeast michigan cornfields, so I couldnt get one locally...but i would love to see a build (with pics) using one!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:28 pm
Posts: 134
I've seen a few pics and a post on the forum about the shroud extender. I'm interested in it as well, but I still can't figure out conceptually how it works.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:00 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
best way to explain is to read this post...http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28982.... essentially, all it does is extend the shroud of the hull up in the air to allow the hull to lean over and make it easier to right, as you now have a fairly heavy hull (100lbs?) helping to pull the boat back over, instead of being past 90 degrees and trying to turtle the boat. Pics are probably an easier way to understand, I am a bad teacher :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:37 am
Posts: 4
I have been scouring the web for the past week or so looking at righting pole ideas.

I think your ideas are great! :D :D :D Obviously, the lighter the sailor, the longer the pole has to be. I don't agree that you have too many lines going. You actually have less lines running around than is the case with the triangle of lines in the set up for the commercially available righting pole. For the reasons you have outlined, the length of your pole requires the two lines. However, I agree that you should definitely use rope instead of cable.

I was wondering about two further possibilities. Rather than installing an attachment to clip the rope on to, could you not just run the rope around the trampoline support and then clip it onto a loop tied on the line? This would avoid drilling and screwing into the hobie.

The other possibility would be using some sort of rope hinge where the righting pole connects to the area just behind the upper dolphin striker. Perhaps running the last bit of rope that tensions the middle of the tramp through holes in the pole or better yet having it run through a loop of some sort that attaches topside of the pole. It is true that using the pole would cause the pole to push against the tramp rope. However, most of the force caused by hanging off the pole would be downward. There would be some horizontal/upward force against the tramp but not nearly as much as the downward force at the end of the pole.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
I suppose you could make some kind of a rope tie off to the front pylon, but in my case I had some aluminum angle stock and just stuck that on the bolt that runs through the pylon. IIRC, only change was putting a stainless nut instead of the nylon stock one. No modification of the boat required, just some angle with two holes drilled in it.

You could make it sit on the tramp ropes (Could probably even make it sit on the striker with the same idea) and I sailed with someone who had a pole designed like that, however he never used it so I am unsure how well it works. I suspect it would be fairly unstable and hard to deploy if you have any chop at all. Would be happy to see someone prove otherwise though.

Mine still needs to have a second support line added as last time I attempted to use it, I climbed out on the pole and quickly swung back towards the boat and fell off. It can support the weight just fine, but it needs to have "V" shape in support lines so it stays put. I'll probably do that in the spring when it thaws out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 419
Location: West Maui
Seems like a lot of work plus the added weight of all the hardware. I used an Hawaiian system for 20 years and never had a problem getting the boat righted.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
Really comes down to your weight, wind, waves ect. If you can confidently right your boat, there is no reason to do this. I went to the trouble because I had the time, resources, and motivation to try it. I weight about 130# and if its blowing less than like 20+mph, there is no way in heck I can right it without assistance, Hawaiian system or not. Being stuck in a capsized position scares me, and keeps me from going out in some conditions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:11 pm
Posts: 309
Location: West Point, Utah
I also am not sure I understand the need/desire for this mod. When I right my boat it immediately takes off sailing again. How do you get the pole back up and stowed? It is all I can do to get on the tramp and out on the trap again in the time before the wind that knocked me over is trying to do so again. To try and deal with a solid pole hanging down into the water would just be too much. Since I have never used one I guess that I really can't say much. To me this goes along with mast raising rigs and masthead floats. Of course I am kind of simple minded and any complexity is just confusing.
As far as being in the capsized position, it is the most stable condition for your Hobie. Much more relaxing and calm than blasting along flying one hull and playing the mainsheet to try and stay upright. Survival sailing is never much fun. Next time you are over on your side just stand on the lower hull, take a few deep breaths, and enjoy the calm. You are not going anyplace very fast and with a sealed mast you are pretty safe and comfortable. Smile and think of the cool story you are going to have to tell your friends.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
I have only used it once, but it was not hard to get it stowed again.while your holding on to the dolphin striker the boat will rotate into the wind, then you just clip it up and your good to go. Again, if you can right your boat in all conditions, more power to you. I cannot. Feel free to hate lol. I have no issue floating along capsized, but I know I will be floating for a LONG time since I can't get it back on its feet, and the longer it floats the more likely the mast with fill with water. Anyway, chances are that of your reading this, you have had difficulty righting your boat at some point.

I like that we are getting lots of options on this, it should help folks make an informed decision. Thanks for the comments, and keep constructive criticism coming


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:20 pm
Posts: 419
Location: West Maui
gcrozier wrote:
... the longer it floats the more likely the mast with fill with water.

Hobie does good job with the foam plugs at either end of the mast. If you're that concerned get a Hobie Bob or tie a bleach bottle to the top of the mast.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
The mast filling with water is not a chef concern, but it is always a risk. I have a homemade mast float on the boat now, but the tip of the mast is still underwater at the tip. That said, this is like 5% of my overall concern of righting the boat. I feel like my inability to right the boat is misunderstood, so at the risk of this getting off topic, I want to present this a different way (just for fun).

I am 5'5" and 130 lb. most references I could find say the center of gravity of a human is near the hips or slightly higher if stretching ( as you would be righting the boat). Lets say around half my height for now, so 32.5 inches. Thus, I can create a moment of 351 ft lb

The mast is about 38 lb and 27 feet long, creating a moment of 513 lb ft when horizontal. Without the weight of wet sails or a wind factor, I would need to weigh at least 190lb to right the boat, or have a center of gravity around 4 feet or more from the hull, which is what this pole effectively does.

If a person was 6' tall and 173 lb, they should be able to right the boat.

Of course this is all theoretical, and when wind and waves and water weight gets thrown it is hard to predict the righting force. That said, I think it's pretty clear it's hard/impossible for me to right the boat without assistance if the wind dies down after a capsize.

Maybe all of you completely understood this from the beginning, but I thought bit was worth bringing up. we can beat this horse all day but with my weight and height I have a disadvantage in terms of righting, hence this discussion of the pole.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:54 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:35 am
Posts: 249
Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
Well that simplifies things. I am 6ft and around 195lbs, so I should be able to right my H16 fairly easily when things get sideways. :D

_________________
Marty
1984 H16 Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 329
Location: Winston Salem, NC
gcrozier,

Your moment calculation left out the weight of the boom, the tramp rails, and the upper hull. When the mast tip is in the water, the upper hull is past center of the point of flotation and adds more moment to be overcome. The purpose of the shroud extenders is to allow the upper hull to be back over the down hull reducing the moment needed to right the boat. I thought I had read that a weight of at least 225 lbs. was needed to right the boat. There are tricks to help like trapping wind in the jib to help lift but at 130 lbs, I would not solo the boat. ( I sailed the same boat for over 25 years both solo and crewed an weigh about 185 lbs.)

_________________
Howard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 41
Htrsailor, glad you clarified that. Yes, I left many small pieces out of that equation because that would take hours to do properly. I took the hulls as being "pretty much" vertically aligned. I took shortcuts in this so please don't someone that is actually 6' and 173 lb go out and take my word that you can right the boat. This was an exercise in comparison, for entertainment only :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group