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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:54 am 
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Hi there, new to the forum (and hobies in general), but I thought I would share some information to anyone interested in making a righting pole for their hobie. I recently bought a H16, and I love it. Being new to the boat, and being a daredevil, I have flipped it over about 3 of the 6 times I have taken it out! I like to sail solo, but being only 130 lbs, righting the boat is almost impossible by myself, using conventional methods. I sometimes couldn't even flip the boat with my 150lb brother...and as far as I can tell, we were using the correct technique. Adding a mast float didn't help much, and I didn't want to my mast to pop out of its cup using shroud extenders. Righting bags were a thought, but I figured a righting pole was the way to go.

In college, we had an engineering design project, so I somehow managed to convince my team to build me a righting pole, on the school's dime! Since it is winter here, I didn't want to test it on the 40 degree water, but we did test it on land....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKmqOdBt4aY.... it seems to work very well, I only have to get about 3/4 of the way out to make it work.

Here is a little more in depth video of how it was made, but I am willing to provide more information if people would like to copy this design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHKA3PPpZNk

I have a few modifications I want to make to the bracket before summer, just to clamp it to the dolphin striker a little tighter.

for a list of materials, here we go...

1 ½’’ X 10’ aluminum conduit- Donated, but your local electrical supply should stock them for around $40

2’’ x 4’’Aluminum Lathe stock- Donated, but around $10 for a 12'' section on ebay

⅛’’ Stainless Cable- Donated, but cheap for as much as you need...$0.36 a foot or something like that

Aluminum Angle- Salvage (just something to bolt to the pylons so you can attach a spring clip to it)

Stainless Hardware- $26.03

Stainless Spring Clips- $7.99



Overall, I think that this is a great modification for solo sailors who like to push the boat. There are easier ways to make the bracket, but this doesnt harm the boat in any way, and just looks cool!

If there is enough interest, I can make up drawings and dimensions, ect.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Nice job of engineering and it is a good idea that you didn't test it out in 40 degree water by yourself as you would have had a difficult time righting the boat. You need to make a modification so that the pole can angle upwards....when it is straight out you are in the water before the boat pops up thus loosing a high percentage of the righting weight. There are many different plans for righting sticks but what almost all of them have in common is the upwards angle from the water to keep the sailor's body out of the water until the boat is coming over. Suggest watching the video on Rick White's Righting System to see how that design kept the majority of the righting weight out of the water. There are also numerous other video for other designs.
.

_________________
2001 H18 w/SX wings & spinnaker #16740 (purchased new)
1989 H18 w/SX wings #14565 (purchased new, sold 2000)
Would buy another if Hobie would build it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:11 pm 
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Good point...I was hoping to test it out on the water in the spring, and experiment with standing on the pole...I saw a pic somewhere of a guy standing on a similar pole, but I am not sure how bouncy the boat will be. The only reason we made the pole go out at a complete 90 was so that when the pole was folded up, the cable would not necessarily have to be unhooked. Being spring clips though, it doesn't really matter. The other change I want to make to it is to add quick release dolphin striker clamps so the bar will be off the tramp more while sailing, and then be put back up near the crossbar for righting, as the torque bends the striker if the bracket is too far off of the crossbar. If I get there, there will be pics/video coming.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:11 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
The use of multiple guy-wires would be a concern for me. You definitely don't want to become tangled in the rigging on the pole. I could see a trapeze hook getting snagged on the wires or fittings causing a very dangerous situation. Also, I think the length of pole extending behind the rear crossbar may interfere with the tiller crossbar when trying to lock the rudders up.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:12 am 
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@srm.... the use of multiple wires keeps the wire from putting a lot of pressure on the upward hull. If you look close, the outer wire is attached to the inner wire, which is connected to the pylon. doing it this way, the wire barely touches the upper hull. The pole bends if there is only one wire in the middle, and having one wire going all the way from the pylon to the end of the pole puts a fair amount of stress on the upper hull, as the upper hull interferes the the straight line the cable would like to make between the pylon and eye bolt. given that I have already had to patch a few minor holes in these hulls, I wanted to keep the relatively thin fiberglass unstressed. I will be out on the end of the pole likely until it goes into the water, leaving me on top of the pole and the wires sinking below me as the boat rights. A cover for the trapeze hook could be made if it looks like it will be a problem. I guess i will have to test it without the trapeze and see how it all works.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
I am not questioning your design from a structural standpoint. I am questioning it from a safety standpoint.

You are adding a lot of hardware/rigging to the boat that is affixed to a pole that you will be hanging off of and which will ultimately be submerged below the water surface. There are numerous tangle points in your design and the thought that you will just get out of the way may seem nice while sitting at home thinking about the design, but when you're out on the water and it's blowing 20 knots and things start happening for real, all that pre-thought goes out the window. You capsize the boat, deploy the righting pole, work your way out to the end and the boat starts coming up. As you start to bring yourself back in towards the hull, you get hung up on one of the guy-wires, the boat continues to right, pulling you under water. The boat has now reached a very stable position (you become the keel) and you're stuck several feet underwater. Not a pleasant scenario.

sm


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Location: Minneapolis (Apple Valley), Minnesota
I agree wholeheartedly with srm that you are inviting a crisis situation by having all those guy wires. Many, many other righting system get by with one line (rope) to the end of the pole without over stressing the hull...been using mine for over 10 years without even a mark on the hulls. Another major issue is using stainless cables you are eliminating one possible self rescue method in the event of a tangle....cutting the guy rope if you had the foresight to have a rescue knife mounted on your pfd or around your neck.

_________________
2001 H18 w/SX wings & spinnaker #16740 (purchased new)
1989 H18 w/SX wings #14565 (purchased new, sold 2000)
Would buy another if Hobie would build it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Fair point, I am not trying to start an argument here. I see the potential concern,and anyone who would like to copy the idea may want to use rope, and/or only one guy wire. The only thing I wonder is, with me standing so far away from the inner wire, will it really make a difference if it is there? I have never used a righting pole on water, so this is a legitimate question. It seems to me that the most likely cable/rope to get caught on would be the wire/rope that would remain, the outer one. the inner wire is only about 3 or 4 feet from the crossbar...I feel it would be harder to get caught on that one, but perhaps I am just being ignorant. I really do appreciate the concern for my safety here guys. Knowing how much rope tends to stretch from testing however, and how it weathers and becomes weaker, I would be inclined to leave the wire on. I feel that having a capsized boat that I can not right due to a righting pole failure would be a far more likely crisis...less dangerous, sure, but still dangerous in high winds/ colder temps.

I am simply trying to look at this from all angles. I know you both have more experience than me in this sort of thing, so I am not trying to pick a fight.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:19 pm 
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You are not looking at it from "all angles". You say your are going to be "standing"...I highly doubt you will be standing on top of the pole, and if you mean hanging on to the end of the pole or even able to crawl out that far (given the extra guy wires) your body is going to be in the water BEFORE the boat is at a point to come over. As currently designed don't go out without an extra body because as your generation says "it's a fail". Couple of us tried to break it to you subtly but sometime the ego of the designer can't accept the reality of their design shortfalls. The world won' t be breaking down your door for the plans.

_________________
2001 H18 w/SX wings & spinnaker #16740 (purchased new)
1989 H18 w/SX wings #14565 (purchased new, sold 2000)
Would buy another if Hobie would build it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:46 pm 
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I'm not trying to be egotistic... but I suppose I am. Honestly, I was just very excited about this righting pole project...I spent hours of work making the bracket, and designing it and testing it and so on...It is just hard to accept someone's word that something won't work before I have even TRIED it in the real world. I understand that the pole should be angled upwards...I have never denied that. I don't plan on sailing in stupid strong wind, at least right now, which is why I thought I could stand on the pole looking at this thread viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54843... but it may be impractical in decent wind, i dono. that is why I asked for your opinion...perhaps I could have worded it better to not come across so stuck up.

I have done some research on righting poles, and there really isn't a tone of information out there for people who want to DIY a pole. Personally, I am in no way able to afford a commercial "power righter" or equivalent, especially considering they are twice as much as I paid for the boat and trailer.

The whole reason I posted on here was to share some information...I'm not looking for fame, just looking to help someone out. Maybe someone will come along and say "I like that idea, I will make one similar" and maybe improve it by allowing it to angle upwards better. I don't think me posting this is leading people in the wrong direction, but if you think it is, I will take this post down.

Overall, I think this has to be better than trying to solo right a H16 with conventional methods, do you agree? Even if it is flawed to the point where it will not right the boat, I will fix the flaws and re-post when I can test it in the water.

I am new to hobie sailing, try to cut me a little slack here.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:05 pm 
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I was trying to cut you a little slack by subtly letting you know their where design issues where from the beginning. The last thing I want to do is to dissuade a new hobie sailor from the sport or participating in the forums where there is a wealth of knowledge that comes from hobie sailors some with 40+ years of competitive experience. But when a neubie (even with some early engineering education) comes along with a design that could potentially create a risk for the skipper or their crew (multiple guy lines made of stainless) or a set up that is not going to get a lightweight solo sailor's boat righted in most winds then to it is the responsibility of the more seasoned to point out the issues. You said you tried your system in the "real world" but the real world is not laying the boat on it's side on the lawn and pulling down on the end of a pole where you would fully in the water before the boat can come upright. You said their wasn't a "tone" of information on DIY righting sticks out there but I can come up with at least 20 separate sets of plans/videos of DIY righting sticks. Don't give up but look for some of the more tried and tested DIY systems out there to help you modify your setup.

Randy

_________________
2001 H18 w/SX wings & spinnaker #16740 (purchased new)
1989 H18 w/SX wings #14565 (purchased new, sold 2000)
Would buy another if Hobie would build it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Sorry, meant to say "haven't tried in the real world"...my intention was to get it working in the water and post a video of it if I do...guess I should have waited until I get a chance to test it before posting this, huh? By righting pole, i was meaning more of one like rick whites, one that would be real quick to deploy...I know some work well, using a 2x6 or something similar on the bottom hull and leaning out... I thought that would be hard to deploy on the water, and hard to store, but they do work.

Since I have already invested in this, i want to make it work somehow...if i do, I will let you guys know...thanks for the input...and sorry about the typos :oops:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
gcrozier -- The only thing you have to get right the first time is sky diving. Play around with it, experiment with it, listen to advice and if it makes sense, take advantage of it. I bet by the end of next summer you'll have yourself a righting pole that you like.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:25 am 
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Gcrozier, since you have a vast majority of the components and have the machining equipment available take a look at http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=79873 to give you an idea on how to modify your hinge for upwards angle.

_________________
2001 H18 w/SX wings & spinnaker #16740 (purchased new)
1989 H18 w/SX wings #14565 (purchased new, sold 2000)
Would buy another if Hobie would build it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:29 pm 
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I like your idea, having it ready to swing out and use, and i have the same problem as you at 175lbs i cant seem to right my boat, and i prefer to sail alone. My only addition to the comments is often you need to be jumping onto the bottom hull to keep the boat down and not going over the other side when the wind is good. try to keep that in mind as you design/improve. I'll be interested in any updates you make so please share.


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