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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:26 pm
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Location: Harsens Island, Michigan
It is definately and innovative approach. I didn't think the dolphin striker would be strong enough to work like this, but apparently it is. My concerns would be that I sail in shallow water, so the pole would hit bottom before it fully righted the boat. I weigh only about 180 lbs, and can come really close to righting it by myself with a little wind assist. I would love to get a good righting system that even works in no wind. Maybe add a small block and tackle that lifts the pole up as the boat comes down?

Another thing to consider is that when it does come back up, two things happen FAST:
- first, the momentum tries to flip it over the other way, so you need to hang onto the lower hull to prevent it. You also need to get out of the way so that you don't get hit in the head by the top hull or the dolphin striker.
- second, the boat starts sailing! You need to be sure to hang on and not get left behind.

I was very fortunate that the first time I flipped it I was alone in 40" of water, so I could stand up and get my plan together before trying to right it. My rudders hadn't been locked down so I was fighting the steering and the hotstick failed leaving me with a sudden change of direction to windward and over it went. Trust me, you want to go out a few times with a good friend and flip it a few times on purpose to get the feel of it and get used to what happens. After that, it's not a big deal and allows you to sail closer to the edge and enjoy it!. The only problem is that it's a lot harder to flip with 2 people on board.

Good luck, have fun and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:40 pm 
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@ NeubaurRL...wish I checked this thread in the morning! Already did some work to help clamp the bracket to the striker...maybe my focus should be on letting it rotate! I hadn't seen that setup before, don't know how I missed it. My break starts this friday, so I should get some time to work on it next week, and see how I like the idea.

@ASDASC...that is an interesting idea for the pole, I wonder if it would be helpful or just too complicated to do while hanging on to the boat. My thought is that I am going to focus my attention on getting enough force to right the boat, and my not have enough time to use a block and tackle. As you said, its gonna come down quick! If it can't be used while righting is in progess, I am sure that would be handy to have in setting the pole up (an adjustment of sorts).

As for the first time I flipped, it was with my ex-girlfriend on the boat...neither of us had sailed a hobie before, and she said she wanted to feel it tip...she sure felt it tip all right! :lol:

As you said about the dolphin striker, it isn't SUPER strong, so the bracket cannot be left in the downward, sailing position. If you were to use it at the bottom, where the horizontal and vertical parts meet, it flexes the striker, as it has some leverage. By moving it upwards towards the crossbar, it almost eliminates flexing, but makes a fairly nasty hard spot in the tramp. That's why I am working on a quick way of moving the bar...Nuebaur's post might be a solution.

and @greensnopro...are you getting at that the boat will have a tendency to flip over again immediately after righting? I have had that happen, it was a pain. I see people jumping up to grab the dolphin striker in videos to solve that. If you are getting at something else, let me know...I am just having a hard time visualizing what you said...I am looking for all the potential conflicts possible to be solved before spring, so lay 'em on me... the better I can make it over the winter, the more sailing time I have once the weather gets nice!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:44 pm 
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yes thats what I mean, the boat coming up, and continuing right on over, getting on the dolphin striker will work, unless you are in some great wind, then you need exact and quick movements to get on that bottom hull for more counter balance. I'm new to this sport also, but I'm very daring and agile lol. I've gone out in some crazy winds and had a great time. But, I have a great girl watching me from shore with a jet ski and a 50' rope. Makes for a nice safety factor. the righting pole(i made one this fall) free's me up to hit lake michigan now.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:00 pm 
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This is a great design project. You're definitely going in a good direction and there is a lot of great feedback/advice here. I coach a competitive robotics team and we spend a LOT of time on designs that ultimately get scrapped, or have issues we fail to see in the beginning, so don't let that get you down. It can be tough to take the feedback sometimes, especially when it means going back to the drawing-board, but learning to be open to accepting this feedback will make you a much better engineer. Unlike art, engineering isn't personal. It goes beyond "design" and into the real world where performance, practicality, and in this case safety are all important things to thoroughly consider.

I'm also working on a design for a righting pole, with some similar concepts to yours. Easily deployable, stored under tramp, minimal complexity, lightweight. It's also cold where I am so I'm also unable to do any real tests until early June...
Some of my thoughts on your design:
-I agree with some of the other posts about the danger of the stainless wire-rope. I think you could substitute that for a synthetic rope. The same type of line that's used for your main halyard would be plenty strong, much lighter, and more easily cut in an emergency situation.

-If you're experiencing flex in the righting pole when you had only one guy-wire attachment point, perhaps you could add something to stiffen the pole. If you added a piece of flat-bar (on edge) on the sides of the pole experiencing the flex it would function like an I-beam and really stiffen the pole up. If you have access to aluminum welding this would be a really quick adjustment, and flat-bar is pretty inexpensive and readily available. You could also try filling the pole with some expanding foam or something to give it some rigidity.

-For quick release/adjustment of the dolphin striker attachment you could get a little cam-clamp bolt like on a bike seat. This would allow you to really easily adjust the placement of the attachment piece without tools and while on the water. You can salvage one from an old bike or make one from parts bought at mcmastercarr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#cam-clamps/=10effyr

- I like the idea of being able to keep the support guy-wires attached at all times. Less to do/think about when you're trying to right the boat. I would definitely try to keep that feature.

Keep at it. You have all winter to make it right! Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I'll share my design too once I have time to get it from paper to real-life.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Location: Rockford, IL
As far as the wind tipping it the other way, or sailing off, point the boat into the wind before you right it. Make sure all lines are uncleated and you shouldn't have any problem.

I have always used the under tramp ropes on my H-17s and now my Getaway. I weigh about 200# and never have a problem righting any of them. Maybe a bucket will help you?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:14 pm 
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I have made the pole able to rotate in the third dimension, so it can now rotate upwards...pics will come. The more I think about it, the more rope seems appealing...I could make it more adjustable that way. Weird question...can you use the thimbles and swage ends for cable on rope? I was thinking the thimbles might help keep the rope from getting pinched around the spring clamps. Or should I just tie them and make it simple? The synthetic rope sounds nice, I will have to see if anyone around me stocks it...in my budget!

Thanks for the input guys!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Location: Minneapolis (Apple Valley), Minnesota
my carbon righting pole just has a stainless steel eye strap about a foot from the end of the pole and each line goes through the eye strap and then goes around the pole and tied off. The eye strap is there only to keep the line from sliding down the pole.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Oh, and Mike...thanks for the suggestions! I have been working on a quick release setup, and I actually thought about the bike seat thing. I also thought about tethering an allen key to the boat, but that would not be very convenient. I think i might know where a few of those bike things are now that I think of it...I will keep you posted.

I also saw something in the shop my dad threw out that might make the end telescoping...more on that when I get time to see if it would work.

My apologies to those who suggested the rope...I can be stubborn at times. I will likely change to rope before spring.

Thanks again guys!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:53 am 
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Alright, here is as quick update as to what has been going on over the past few weeks. I would have posted sooner, but all the snow made it hard to get to the boat.

The main modification was adding another pivot point to the bracket. This allows the pole to angle upwards, keeping the sailor out of the water for a longer period of time, as many have pointed out may be necessary. Also, it keeps the pole from potentially damaging the dolphin striker: as the pole enters the water, or in a shallow area, hits the bottom of the lake, the pole could create significant side-loading forces to the striker, which it was never intended to deal with. Now that it has a pivot point, that energy can be dispersed.

Image

I used a 1/2 stainless bolt, cut off the head, and threaded it in to the striker side of the bracket. I also cut a groove in the shaft to insert a set screw to keep the pole from sliding off the shaft while sailing. (sorry for the bad pic)
Image


finally, I made my own quick releases for the dolphin striker, since I had already tapped the bracket for 1/4 bolts, but could not find any quick releases in 1/4'' that were all stainless or aluminum.

Image

Yes, the cable is still on there...I am going to leave it on for testing purposes...and because its cold out. If you have questions I would be happy to answer them.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:40 pm 
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
You can always just get another sailor to climb out on top of you.

Like this:

Image

Taken today at the Charlotte Harbor Regatta. This was at the end of the day. That was their third attempt and the young lady who is climbing out onto her fellow sailor did not seem to have a fourth attempt in her. They got it up, finished the race, and sailed off toward home.


More pics here:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 09dca622b6


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
Tom Ray wrote:
You can always just get another sailor to climb out on top of you.

Like this:

Image

Taken today at the Charlotte Harbor Regatta. This was at the end of the day. That was their third attempt and the young lady who is climbing out onto her fellow sailor did not seem to have a fourth attempt in her. They got it up, finished the race, and sailed off toward home.


More pics here:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 09dca622b6


it was cold today and yesterday. was that the last race?

i made a pole for my boat and used it once years ago. now i dont really use it because i weight enough. mine went under the lip of the rail and lines that went around the hulls. it worked perfect the one time i used it

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:10 am 
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Getting a fellow skipper to act as the righting pole? Genius! I've been thinking about this all wrong!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:32 am 
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Location: Hartland, WI
I saw the same Technic used on a utube video from Europe. One guy acted as a pole and the other walked out onto his shoulders.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:18 am 
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Nice job gcrozier. If you're still looking for ideas, here's a a different design on a Tiger:



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 9:53 am 
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Location: Virginia Beach VA
Your initial premise that your mast will separate from the base with a shroud extender is flawed. Shroud extender kits work very well and the kit comes with a cable leash that allows the mast to fully rotate as well as prevent separation in a capsize. Righting bags and poles are all very cumbersome compared to shroud extenders.


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