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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:54 pm
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
The Tip to check Swedish options of Hobie16 catamarans for sale seems to be a piece of great wisdom.

Hobie hobby seems to be much more lively in Sweden than Finland. All Hobie16s available in Finland are more or less beach boats for leisure time at summer home, but in Sweden there are mostly Hobies for serious sport and competing for sale.

Blocket.se seems to be great playground to continue the Hunt for a Good Hobie16.

Because I'm going to sail mostly bu myself, should I consider also Hobie14, or some other HobieCat?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:23 am 
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Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
When considering the H14 or H16 and solo sailing, I would say a big determining factor would be your weight. The H14 cannot handle as much weight as the H16 due to smaller hulls of course. The H14 is a fun boat and is mostly sailed solo, and has a single mainsail. I had an H14 when I was a teenager many many years ago and I could solo the boat but mostly would go out with a friend, of course I weighed a whole lot less then, Lol.
The H14 Turbo is basically the same as an H14 but has a jib and single trapeeze set up and dolphin striker. It too, is mostly a solo sail type of boat. The H16 can handle more weight than the H14 due to its larger hulls of course, and can be solo sailed as well.
So basically it all comes down to your weight and if you are going to primarily be sailing solo, or are you going to be sailing with friends. That's my take on it anyway, opinions may vary.

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Marty
1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:10 am 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Thanks Marty!

HobieMarty wrote:
When considering the H14 or H16 and solo sailing, I would say a big determining factor would be your weight. The H14 cannot handle as much weight as the H16 due to smaller hulls of course. The H14 is a fun boat and is mostly sailed solo, and has a single mainsail. I had an H14 when I was a teenager many many years ago and I could solo the boat but mostly would go out with a friend, of course I weighed a whole lot less then, Lol.
The H14 Turbo is basically the same as an H14 but has a jib and single trapeeze set up and dolphin striker. It too, is mostly a solo sail type of boat. The H16, with its larger hulls, can handle more weight than the H14 due to its larger hulls of course, and can be solo sailed as well.
So basically it all comes down to your weight and if you are going to primarily be sailing solo, or are you going to be sailing with friends. That's my take on it anyway, opinions may vary.


That was fast and sounds like a very educated and experienced piece of advicxe <3

Based on that I think sticking H16 unless there is some reasonably priced and well equipment H14 available in Sweden. Haven't managed to find a good site for looking Estonian catamarans yet.

Have started to think that some friends would probably be very interested to come along test and learn sailing. Catamarans are quite exotic on lake Näsijärvi which is very big lake on Finnish standards. I haven's saw any catamarans actually. The catamaran will be noticed.

On the other end of lake lies big town Tampere where I used to live earlier. With catamaran I will sail there at no time, and have more friends waiting on the dock for a sail. Probably some strangers will be eager to give a try too.

Maybe I should find a cofunder, select a well equipped Swedish H16 available. Learn how to sail it this summer continuing until lake Näsijärvi is frozen. Probably wanna put skates or skies under trapeze during winter.

During autumn, winter and spring in good order we will register a vessel sharing cooperative for renting H16 on lake Näsijärvi next summer. Will build the trailer during winter and agile develop an App based sharing and renting system. There is option for euro-cooperatives too, but then I should find go-founders for cooperative in at least two other EU country.

Image

This small storage room beside my front door will make a great small renting office and storage for equipment where members can take things on their way to sail with their own keys.

I really can't start giving any sailing lessons next season, but will be able to share H16 with those already with sailing skills.

Have been looking for a good project to test Trello and Slack apps with this kind of geographically distributed project for testing virtual organization building Apps based to keep busy being on early retirement for hurting my back badly on a falling accident at age of 24.

I'm a little bit limb, like every good sailor, but people usually hardly notice, except in Spain. For some reason Spaniards seems to notice even slight cripples.

When developed and tested cooperative can take members all over Europe or in Finland at least, and system can be used by other people and groups to co-equip and share a vessel. Quite fashionable one may think but I don't mind surfing the tide.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:21 pm
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Location: Winston Salem, NC
I just looked at your lake on Google earth and was quite impressed. It seems to be about 15 miles long and 4 to 5 miles wide. I would love to sail it on an H-16.

One question- if you have a back problem will you be comfortable on a trampoline rather than sitting normally in a monohull?

If you are planning a rental arrangement I want to mention that I had difficulty finding Hobies to rent when i was traveling. The reason I was given was that inexperienced sailors would damage the rental boats so the rental agencies gave up on it.

I am sure you would enjoy an H-16. I think they are also more plentiful that the H-14 and more versatile. By the way, my grandfather was a Swedish-Finn and served on a square rigged ship that went around the world in the 1890s.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:12 pm 
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Based on what I can draw from your sailing experience, it might be better for you to purchase a different boat than a Hobie 16. Take note, I'm not saying a Hobie 16 is a bad choice, it's a good choice. However, I'm saying there are probably better boats out there.

My first suggestion, for your learning stages, would be a laser (or a sunfish or starling like boat, depending what local fleets sell. Laser is the most popular worldwide). They're easy to find, and you can probably easily get sailing this summer to learn how to sail. If you flip over it's no problem. The laser is also easy to re-sell later for when you want to trade up to a catamaran.

For solo sailing, the Hobie 17 (sport edition if you can find one) I've heard is excellent. The Hobie 17 is easy to right by yourself due to the wings. Maybe this boat would be okay, but from the photos I would be worried about its condition: https://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Hobie_ ... w=1&last=1

These looks pretty good for an H16, both for sale in Sweden: https://www.blocket.se/malmo/Hobie_Cat_ ... ?ca=11&w=3
https://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Hobie_ ... ?ca=11&w=1

Good luck


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:35 am
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Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
That 1993 H16 looks nice, has some nice extra equipment such as beach wheels and harnesses, also has a trailer with a nice looking sail box. How much is 28000 Kr in US dollars???

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Marty
1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:54 pm
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
hrtsailor wrote:
I just looked at your lake on Google earth and was quite impressed. It seems to be about 15 miles long and 4 to 5 miles wide. I would love to sail it on an H-16.


Lake Näsijärvi surely is great for sailing, there is enough room for wind. People do have all kind of boats, but catamaran sailing is not yet popular in Finland for some reason.

hrtsailor wrote:
One question- if you have a back problem will you be comfortable on a trampoline rather than sitting normally in a monohull?


I think trampoline and especially trapeze will be good for back as a way to build muscles to strengthen posture.

Next summer after having had accident in the end of previous summer, I borrowed neighbors small Topper like boat at summer cottage and learned to sail it by myself. The mast was pointing at the bottom of the lake Vanaja like 10 times before figured out how to turn both ways but a small boat was easy to straighten up.

That time I had two titan bars in my back to keep two dorsal vertebrae apart from one in the middle rebuilt up again with the bone taken from hip. The bars were planned to take off my back after one year. During the week learning sailing another of bars broke after continues hard physical training to keep boat up against the wind and other stuff. It was painful to have broken titan bar in your back but both bars were then taken out early without any harm. Back was not damaged any more than already was.

I have this intuition that sailing will be good for me strengthening all the muscles but especially back and stomach. But there is no other way to know but try it.

hrtsailor wrote:
If you are planning a rental arrangement I want to mention that I had difficulty finding Hobies to rent when i was traveling. The reason I was given was that inexperienced sailors would damage the rental boats so the rental agencies gave up on it.


I was not planning to have more than one H16 and share it. But wanna try to give other people also easy way to acquire, equip, own and operate a boat. Boats and ships are traditionally co-owned and operated since Vikings and surely earlier in history also.

hrtsailor wrote:
I am sure you would enjoy an H-16. I think they are also more plentiful that the H-14 and more versatile. By the way, my grandfather was a Swedish-Finn and served on a square rigged ship that went around the world in the 1890s.


Now I'm convinced it have to be H16, thank you :)

Wow, your granddad was a true sailor.

Did you know first time Finns are mentioned in the history they are told to be selling wind for ships waiting it to blow or to change at the tip of horn Porkkala and horn Hanko?

You could also bought some wind for the later use. Wind, bigger wind, and storm was delivered to happy customer by shaman in the knots made in a small rope, and consumed by opening the knots. Also you could have bought a bag of good wind from Finns, largely known by their honestly and high morals since the beginning of the times.

Learned quite recently that a Finn was a must have item on every sailing vessel as long as they commercially sailed the seas. A Finn on the ship was probaly not a sure guarantee of good winds and safe voyage, but hardly ever a captain or crew wanted to take a risk to sail without a Finn among the sailor
s.

Mastering the winds like that by inherited ancient secret Finnish wisdom and magic, I will be almost unbeatable on the race after learned to master Hobie16 just a little bit ;)


Last edited by juanstefanos on Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:54 pm
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
BboySlug wrote:
Based on what I can draw from your sailing experience, it might be better for you to purchase a different boat than a Hobie 16. Take note, I'm not saying a Hobie 16 is a bad choice, it's a good choice. However, I'm saying there are probably better boats out there.

My first suggestion, for your learning stages, would be a laser (or a sunfish or starling like boat, depending what local fleets sell. Laser is the most popular worldwide). They're easy to find, and you can probably easily get sailing this summer to learn how to sail. If you flip over it's no problem. The laser is also easy to re-sell later for when you want to trade up to a catamaran.


It's nice of You to warn me and be worried, thank you for sympathy and concern <3

BboySlug is absolutely right about the order of learning vessels, and I will never recommend anyone else to do like I'm just going to.

Want to put it here out loud for future readers considering their own choice of first boat for learning how to sail:
this is wrong, nobody else should ever try.


There are lots of good reasons beside ones mentioned here told to me by several experienced sailors via email.

But I see this as lot as a sport also as an educating spectacle of self discovery not being achieved by other methods than being an absolute beginner and selecting the most fast and furious way of sailing to learn it from the basics.

Absolute Beginners Complete Guide for Hobie 16 Catamaran Sailing

Will make a blog, insta, movie, tv-series, and hard copy book, but the name I came up for the project, is only truthful if the character is a true novice for both catamarans and sailing.

There are plenty of suitably priced Lasers available. Have considered.

It would be no fun for the audience, knowing everything better, if take the normal road and learn to sail with regular monohull boat.

The spectacle of old, tiny man trying to learn to sail with a fastest and nastiest catamaran Hobie16, on the other hand, will surely be great fun and dangerous situations for the audience of all ages.


Last edited by juanstefanos on Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Age shouldn't be a problem. I started sailing the Hobie when I was over 50 and turned the boat over to my daghter when I turned 82. Weight is another question. How much do you weigh? It usually takes 2 people to right an H-16 and it takes some weight when sailing to counter balance the boat.

Another side light. I don't know my grandfather's real name. When he immigrated to the US, his papers were in Cyrillic Russian since Russia then controlled Finland. American officials couldn't read it so they just assigned him a name. The papers were lost. I have been trying to figure out how to trace it back but so far no luck.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
hrtsailor wrote:
Age shouldn't be a problem. I started sailing the Hobie when I was over 50 and turned the boat over to my daghter when I turned 82. Weight is another question. How much do you weigh? It usually takes 2 people to right an H-16 and it takes some weight when sailing to counter balance the boat..


Couldn't find enough fresh batteries for person scale, but would say something like 66kg, not more quite sure.

hrtsailor wrote:
Another side light. I don't know my grandfather's real name. When he immigrated to the US, his papers were in Cyrillic Russian since Russia then controlled Finland. American officials couldn't read it so they just assigned him a name. The papers were lost. I have been trying to figure out how to trace it back but so far no luck.


Wow, what an interesting piece of immigration history in your family. Sad all the ties for old country is lost so totally that you don't even know grand dads orginal family. Family was important thing in Scandinavia and Finland old days, family ties were the base of respect and justice. Even in murder cases families of victim and murderer negotiated compensations for human life lost before court meeting themselves. That is if the family of murdered victim didn't kill the killer as revenge during next three days after murder which they had all the right to do by the law.

Nowadays social security system had made Northern countries quite sad when looking at family ties. Old people are put into retirement homes, relatives don't visit, ties between generations become weaker, and old people more lonely and unhappy. Don't get me wrong, strong social security by the society is an excellent thing, because not everyone have relatives to take care at old age, but it also gives otherwise good and loving children an opportunity to focus on career and nuclear family and forgot old relatives in the care of society.

All the Finns are listed by church very carefully since 1500's. Before that all the land owning families are listed among their houses paying taxes for church. For long time natural products like crop, fish, butter, hemp etc. Since reformation everyone was obligated to learn Katekismus and soon also read enough to understand bible. To keep record of these skills church started to have examinations and listed all people no matter how much they ówn to keep record of their bible and reading skills.

My fathers last name was Kauppi, but actually Kauppi was the name of the house, quite large farm with fields and forest, and own two mans piece hunting land over 60 km more north from Tavastia, wilderness with no permanent habitation yet. The house of Kauppi comes visible into history in taxation records in the late 1400's.

Seg is my mothers fathers fathers name. It's a solder name given by crown meaning though and persistent. Names were given by personal properties under the service.

But I'm not man line Kauppi nor my father. During the centuries the house of Kauppi was 4 times without male inheritor, and the daughter of the house married a man to get a master for the house.

One thouse married to house of Kauppi was my fathers man line relative. That family kept the house of Kyynärö 10 generations after another. Probably that was recommendations enough for the house of Kauppi to take one younger boys from Kyynärö to run the bisnes.

Although lately I have come to think about the inevitable genetic curse of the house of Kauppi, thouse daughters of wealthy house selecting a husband and master not purely by agricultural and hunting merits four times over the years.

But the records of the Finland, first part of Sweden and then autonomic part of Russia since 1810, are excellent.

You may be able to study your family history very long backwards like my father did, if just find the family name. If you lucky some family researcher has done all the work for you.

I take your grand father did not get any letters from old country, or those are lost?

If there was no one to write him left in the old country, you would not find living relatives in Finland, but you will surely be able to find long history.

But if you take a genetic sample and send you DNA tested you might find a relative among the other people made the test. A good chance to find a relative because Finns are very eager for DNA testing themselves.

Is the name of the ship your grand father sailed known?

By the way, that friend of mine will not become a part owner of Windmill, but she is eager to learn some sailing with Hobie later.

Now I go to sleep. Have already made a deal with a friend to borrow his Peugeot Boxer mobile home van when taking a trip to Sweden or Denmark to get the catamaran when the deal is clear.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
I agree age shouldn't be a problem. I am 50 and started sailing this year. I bought my 14 turbo with no sailing experience. I had sailed once with my father many years ago on a dinghy. If you have the desire and the drive to do it then by all means make it happen!

I am fortunate to be self employed and have been sailing the 14 most nights for a couple hours. I am not be an expert but I have definitely come a long ways already this year.

My fathers family is Norwegian so maybe I have some Viking blood in me.

I wish you good luck with your sailing quest.

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84 14T #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull 16 '81 nationals
[img]20180909_191954.jpg[/img]


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
Age is just a number right? I learned to sail when I was 10 years old with a little Sea Snark, have sailed Sunfish, and when I was 15 we got a H14 and I learned to really sail then. By the time I was 22 or so, the H14 was long gone, but a rental house I lived in the Sandestin area had a little Sea Snark that came with the house, and we were on a private beach called Tango Mar. I used to take that little beat up boat out to the sandbar, up and down the beach every day in the summer of 1987 from June to November about a week before Thanksgiving. I was out there every day after work until sunset, greatest summer ever, sailed the crap out of that boat. That was the last time I sailed until 3 years ago when I got my H16. I have re-learned things all over again and had to learn the characteristics and behavior of this boat. I am living proof that you can indeed teach an old dog new tricks, I'm 52 now by the way, so yeah, age is just a number. :D

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1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:45 am 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Amazing to see how supportive everyone is about starting to learn sailing in the middle age or later years. Nice of you to share your experience, since your attitude gives me trust that it's possible for me also to learn totally new and very physical sport. :)

Have been too lazy to train enough to compensate lower body muscle weaknesses caused being slightly paralyzed. Hope this hobby is subtle way to tough exercise discovered as excitement caused by speed and elements to catamaran sailing. Clearly I'm trying to lure myself to start physical exercise before too late.

Nice plus to notice how supportive and helpful people sailors seems to be. Surely sailing will bring lots of new friends and social encounters. Seems like a perfect hobby for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:43 am 
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Location: Winston Salem, NC
There aren't many towns along the Swedish Finnish boarder where my grandfather could have come from. I thought if I searched the church records in those towns (they are available on line) I might find someone born on his birthday. Unfortunately I can't even find his birthday though I did find his US citizenship paper.

The ship he served on was the George R. Skolfield, built in Brunswick, Maine in 1885 and dismantled in Sea Girt NJ in 1927. It was my uncle who bought and dismantled it. He gave the capstan head to my mother and I still have it. I am try ing to do further research on the ship to see if I can find any records of the crew. He was ship's carpenter.

I would suggest that you recruit a crew to sail with you until you become comfortable about sailing solo. Sharing the excitement of sailing is a good part of the fun.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Yippee!

Found a Hobie16 from Sweden and paid the upfront payment via PayPal.

Previous owner s seems to be very nice and friendly person. He even invited me to stay a night in their guest house when going to collect the catamaran. It comes with a lot of equipment, and as far as possible to say without seeing the boat, it's either in good or excellent condition.

Image

Didn't want to point out the advertisement before the deal was clear this time. It was for sale in Blocket.se.

Probably will leave my Saab900 for my friend to use, and borrow his small mobile home built in Peugeot Boxer instead. It consumes less fuel than my old Saab from 1988.

Next thing start to look for ferry tickets over Baltic Sea from Finland to Sweden and consider options for trailer.

It seems that I may be a catamaran sailor this season after all. Thank you all for support. Marty pointed out that all happen for reason and the right vessel for me is there waiting for me in good time. Happy we got together so soon with her. This was like Martys prophecy came true.


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