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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Proudly decided to learn how to sail with HobieCat16. There's only few secondhand options available. Now I'm wondering if there is big difference between HobieCat16 from year 1985 or 1993?

I would prefer Hobie 16 Tequila 1985 because it comes with trailer. Another option is HobieCat 16 from year 1993. Is there some reasons I should prefer one from 1990's?

Thanks in advance!

juanstefanos


Last edited by juanstefanos on Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
If the 1985 has a "redline" hull it would be lighter than the 1993.

I would be more interested in the overall condition of everything, sails, tramp, rudders, hulls than anything else.

Check the hulls for any soft spots.

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
A1cnc wrote:
If the 1985 has a "redline" hull it would be lighter than the 1993.

I would be more interested in the overall condition of everything, sails, tramp, rudders, hulls than anything else.

Check the hulls for any soft spots.


Wise advises. Thanks A1cnc :)

I get that the hulls are the most important. Afraid will not be a great judge of other equipment either.

I think I was trying to ask, if there have been some upgrades, change of material, or something like that, why one should prefer 90's HobieCat16 over 80's version, if boats are in similar condition.

Apparently changes in production are small if any from decade to next.

Here's a picture of Hobie Tequila for sale.

Image

A1cnc is right about the weight. Tequila is 10kg lighter.

Info in the Tequila add lists weight 140kg,
and this normal 1993 HobieCat weights 150kg.

So after all there is some difference between these two catamarans. Is there more than weight should be considered?

Because gonna sail most often by myself, maybe 10kg lighter Tequila is just the right choice for me?

Options are quite limited, because there is only 4 Hobie16 for sale in Finland right now.

By the way: made google+ community HobieCat16 Beginners Guide to collect learning material, and report own experiences.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:34 pm 
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In that picture of the tequila the rudders are black. That most likely means it has the EPO rudders which are lighter and are expensive to buy. So that is a plus for the tequila too.

I don't believe the materials changed much on those, I can't tell in the picture if that has it but at some point they came out with jib traveler tracks on the front crossbar. Also can't tell from the picture but at some point they also came out with a comp-tip mast which means the top section is some kind of composite material.

In my opinion, I would get the tequila as it is a more desirable boat having some upgrades already done as long as the 2 are the same condition.

Lighter is good if you are moving it around yourself.

Take a good look at things like all the cables to see if their are any broken strands, the ropes (sheets) to see the condition of them. Look at the tramp to see if it looks like it spent all it's time exposed to sunlight (faded color on the top).

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
A1cnc wrote:

In my opinion, I would get the tequila as it is a more desirable boat having some upgrades already done as long as the 2 are the same condition.

Lighter is good if you are moving it around yourself.



Lots of thanks again A1cnc <3

Decided to take your advice last night, and buy the Hobie 16 Tequila, just like you recomended. Someone else was faster to took your advice, I guess.

The catamaran was for sale long time, but today was apparently sold by the time when I was trying to reach the seller by phone. He told me 40 minutes about the boat when called earlier, but now don't answer the call or SMS. For sale add has also vanished :(

Just wrote @ HobieCat16 Beginners Guide google+ community:


Quote:
Damn. After this catamaran was recomended for me by more experienced enthusiast at Hobie forum late yesterday evening, someone apparently bought it right away. I was planning to check the boat tomorrow, but the friendly seller doesn't answer call anymore. For sale add has been taken off.
Now there is only three Hobie 16 catamarans without trailer available in Finland. Should I check Sweden, Denmark, Estonia and Russia for options? Does anyone have recommendations for sites checking Hobie 16 availability at Baltic Sea nations?


Image

I was thinking it would be very nice visit different places and sail with catamaran. Without trailer I will be locked to my homebay at lake Näsijärvi (photo). Nice to have only 150 meters from home door to reach the beach, but trailer would made hobby much larger and interesting via learning new places.

Do you have recomendations where to check Hobie 16 catamarans with trailer for sale around Baltic Sea area?

Pricetag of 1950€ was little hight but tolerable. Would have had just enough money to buy gasoline back home with Tequila on trailer after paying her with cash tomorrow.


Last edited by juanstefanos on Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Have gathered some info considering the original question about if there has been changes in production one should take into consideration when choosing between second hand Hobie 16 catamarans manufactured over years.

The material of hulls was changed 1983. After that vessels should be comparable, as far as I understand so far.

Found some advice how to choose between secondhand Hobie 16 catamarans available at the market. Hope someone finds it useful.

It is suggested by the International Hobie Class Association that: "If you intend to purchase a used boat to be used for racing, you will want a 320 lbs. boat. You should look for something manufactured since 1993.

In general, as hobieclass specifcations says under topic Production Changes:


Quote:
While incremental changes have been introduced over production, a 1972 Hobie 16 will look very similar to a new one. Changes over the years have improved and standardized boat production around the world. New boats today are built with better hardware, hull weights are tightly controlled and a new boat needs only a few racing modifications. In recent years, the major changes have been the introduction of cross bars where the traveler tracks are inegrated into the cross bar, hardware upgrades and carbon fiber EPO2 rudders.The sails went through an upgrade in late 1990’s and are now made from higher quality cloth. The jib was also recut in 2000 to allow more mast rake. Since mast rake is a critical component of upwind performance, there have been many tweaks to all sorts of parts, from the mast step to the mainsheet boom bail, to the shroud length to increase mast rake.


Same source says something also about choosing used boat under topic What to Look Out For in a Used Boat:

Quote:
Hobie 16’s have been in production for 40 years and it is still common for find used boats on the market from the early 1970’s. As a general rule, “you get what you pay for” when shopping for a used boat. As a starting point when looking at a used boat you want to ensure it is a ‘complete boat’ with all it’s parts. Replacing major components that are missing (i.e. sails or mast) can be costly. Delamination of the hulls is the most common issue seen in very old hulls. Delamination leads to a wavy or spongy softness to the fiberglass. This is a serious problem that can lead to catestrophic hull failure if not addressed. Small areas of delamination can be repaired but a hull that has delamination over it’s entire length is generally not repairable. All wires and standing rigging should be carefully inspected and replaced if more than a few years old. If you intend to purchase a used boat to be used for racing, you will want a 320 lbs. boat. You should look for something manufactured since 1993. Fiberglass or carbon fiber rudders are a plus but can be obtained separately. Sail condition is a consideration. Typically the racing life of the sails is about five years but some replace their sails more frequently. The new style jib cut was introduced in 2000 and will allow you to carry more mast rake.


The most comprehensive guide for shopping a second hand catamaran have found so far, the Ultimate Catamaran Buyers Guide writes about Hobie 16:

Quote:
Produced from about 1970 on. Large production numbers. Still being manufactured. Class racing is excellent. Boat weights were reduced in 1983 by changing the construction materials. Available in a variety of hull colors. Sails are available in a variety of colors. Mylar sails are now class legal. A comp-tip is required for persons wanting to race. Trampolines are typically made of vinyl.

Items to check on a prospective boat:

Right and left rear corner castings at trampoline supports often get cracks in them

Check to see that the mast is straight by sighting up it when the rig is stood. Look up the sail track.

Rudder cams should be in good working condition. You can test this by locking the rudder in the down position and tapping at the leading edge of the rudder with your foot. The rudder should not release until you give it a solid shot. The rudder should be easily brought in to the up position with the steering mechanism.

The spring that holds the rudder cam in place when locked down should be in good condition.

Push on the deck of the hull just in front of the front crossbar. If there is flex in the deck, this is probably not a good boat for you. This area is critical to the boats structure!

Look underneath the hulls to see if there is a lot of beach wear. If you can see the hull beneath the gelcoat paint, that is okay. If you can see fiberglass coming through the brown hull resin, the boat will need a $300 bottom job soon.

Check at the back of the boat where the rudders connect to the hull. The metal fastener housings are called gudgeons. If there is cracking around the gudgeons, the boat has probably had some problems when beaching. This can be a severe problem so look carefully at the back of the boat.

Look for worn wires on the mast. Look at the shrouds (side wires) forestay (front wire) and the trapeze wires for broken strands. Also check the bridle wires (very front, attach to bow) for broken strands. Ask the owner when he replaced the wires last. Most manuals suggest a five year maximum life for wires even if they have not been used.

Look for broken strands in the halyards (lines that pull up the sails).

Look at the sails for broken battens (solid pieces of fiberglass) in sail.

Look for tears in the sails.

Check the stiffness of the sail material. The newer the material, the stiffer the sail.

Trampoline condition. Tramp should have no tears or holes.

Look for areas of discoloration in the hulls. This may indicate a repair of some type.

Ask if the boat leaks. If so, how much in two hours. A few cups of water are okay, but half a gallon or more is unacceptable.

Look all around the hulls for gelcoat (paint) cracks. Sometimes this is okay, but if the area around the cracks is soft, walk away and look for another boat! Press on the decks with the palm of your hand and all of your weight.

Ask the owner of the boat to rig the boat with you the first time to make sure that all of the parts are there. Make sure that you look overhead before you stand the mast to make sure that there are no electrical or telephone wires you may hit. Once you have rigged the boat, actually get on the boat and pretend that you are tacking. Move the sails, the rudders, and anything else you would normally operate when sailing the boat.

Ask the owner why he is selling the boat. How long has it been on the market? Are you the original owner? When was the last time you were sailing on this boat.

Ask the owner what model year the boat is. Then go to the back of the boat on the right hull and look on the back of the boat. There will be a hull number that will end something like "M79L". This would indicate that the boat is a 1979 model. Make sure that the title that the owner gives to you has a VIN # (hull #) that matches the number on the boat. Make sure that the person you are speaking to owns the boat. They must own it outright with no "legal owner" listed. If there is a legal owner listed, you must make sure that the lien on the boat has been satisfied. Simply call the lienholder. Make sure that the person selling the boat is the singular owner and that there are not two names listed on the title. If there are two names, then the other person must also sign off and date their interest in the item. To be really sure that this boat is as it appears, contact you local DMV and County Accessors office. Have the Hull numbers for the boat and the VIN # for the trailer ready along with the owners full name and address.

Taxes and registration. Ask the owner if he has paid his county tax on the boat for the current year. Call DMV and make sure there are no outstanding parking tickets or other citations on the trailer. If the boat and trailer are out of date on registration, it could be very expensive to get the boat and trailer back to current. The certificate of non-operation slips are much more limiting than they used to be so call DMV to confirm you will not have to pay the additional registration fees and back penalties due.

If the owner no longer has or has misplaced the certificate of title(s), make sure you have them provide you with a "duplicate certificate of title" along with $14 per lost title to cover DMV fees and processing fees. Do not give payment in full for the boat until the title has been cleared with DMV!

What additional accessories come with the boat? Beach roller, lifejackets, harnesses, wetsuits or sailing gear, spare wires, pins, shackles? Extras are nice, but add no real value to what you should pay for a boat except for a cat box and beach roller. Does the trailer have a spare tire?

You must also get from the owner a "BILL OF SALE" which is a standard document available at the DMV. A home made version does not do the trick. When you arrive at the DMV with the bill of sale you will be assessed State of California Sales Tax based upon the amount paid for the boat and trailer. You must get separate bills of sale for the boat and trailer showing correct hull and trailer numbers. It is payable at the time of registration.

There are other things to check over and there is no way we can cover them all in this article. If you use this as a fundamental guide and some common sense, you can make a good purchase! Good luck and always wear your lifejacket!


Will try to study this wisdom to be more educated Hobie 16 buyer when seeing a beach catamaran first time ever tomorrow.

Sure the Owners Manual will be helpful trying to learn about the vessel.


Last edited by juanstefanos on Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
juanstefanos wrote:

The catamaran was for sale long time, but today was apparently sold by the time when I was trying to reach the seller by phone. He told me 40 minutes about the boat when called earlier, but now don't answer the call or SMS. For sale add has also vanished :(


Owner wasn't trying to avoid me contacting, but was busy having a nice summer evening. Just got SMS from him: "have sold the catamaran 25.7." aka yesterday.

Wanna have my own catamaran during current historical heatwave prognosed to continue at least few weeks. Should try to broaden my horizon over national boarders if still wanting one which comes with trailer, because there are not any for sale in Finland.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
Good of you to post all that info on what to look out for for others to find.

I don't know about the boat market in Finland but sometimes you can find a trailer from a "regular" boat and modify it to work for the hobie cat. All it really needs is 2 sturdy crossbars with rollers and guides. The hobie cats weigh a fraction of what most boats weigh so the trailers are usually way over the needed weight capacity for a hobie cat.

Take a look at some good pictures of hobie cat trailers to see what it might take to modify one to work.

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:35 am
Posts: 438
Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
Sorry that you couldn't score that H16 Tequila, it looked like it was well cared for. I have never heard of that model of H16, only heard of and seen the sail pattern "Tequila Sunrise", I am wondering if the "Tequila" was available here in the states, or was that a European thing?
Also, is Craigslist available in Finland? That is actually how I found my boat. Good luck with your search, you will find your boat, sometimes it just takes a little time.

_________________
Marty
1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Thanks for compassion about the fact I'm still not Hobie16 owner. Heatwave goes on, and I really want to go sailing.

I'm starting to wonder, if I'm not going to be H16 sailor this summer at all, or do I have to consider something else.

Next Wednesday there is option to go see one Hobie16, but the owner told me, that during sail yesterday that Hobie leaked one liter water, so apparently hulls are not perfect.

Tomorrow Saturday morning I go check another Hobie nearby. She's the one in the best condition of second hand Hobie16s available at the moment. No trailer either, but as A1cnc pointed out, building a trailer for Hobie is a good option.

Have also started to study other options making happy those who have said Hobie16 is too demanding for a first vessel to learn sailing.

Image

One wooden Windmill is about same price range as Hobie16s, and is strongly recommended for me.

Image

The cheapiest and most easy solution to visit different places for a sail is Minisail Topper. Would look great on the roof of my red 1988 Saab900. Could use the rest of money for Saab repairs needed.

Image

Should make decisions tomorrow. The third, Minisail Topper option is not listed there, but you can give your opinion also @ facebookunder this posting.



HobieMarty wrote:
Sorry that you couldn't score that H16 Tequila, it looked like it was well cared for. I have never heard of that model of H16, only heard of and seen the sail pattern "Tequila Sunrise", I am wondering if the "Tequila" was available here in the states, or was that a European thing?


Haven't been able to figure out this one. In general, it was almost impossible to find any info about H16 Tequila. That's partly why I lost her. No info so I came here to ask if anyone knows something. Probably some other Finn with interest for sailing bought her right away.

Will check Craigslist, thanks for advice.

Good sails and nice weekend for everyone :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:52 am 
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That Hobie16 went to check today morning was not pretty nor well kept. But it is the most expensive one for Sale. Actually I'm already pretty sure I don't wanna buy it because regrets would be inevitable.

Next Hobie to see is the oldest and cheapest, but by the photos in much better condition than one saw today.

I friend of mine noticed me pondering my boat options at facebook, and told she is also eager to learn sailing. Windmill would be her number one choice, and we would buy the mahogany beauty together.

After 3 email and 2 sms messeges later haven't been able to reach the owner of Topper yet. Gonna try to call him next.

After that a swim, and the I drive to town to have a sit down with my friend about good sails.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:41 am 
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Wood boats are a constant project. The fiberglass boats don't need to be scraped/ sealed like wooden boats do pretty much every year. If it has been fiberglassed over it is a bit easier but much heavier than most fiberglass boats.

I hate to post this but there was a free complete hobie cat 16 near me on cragslist recently. I was second in line but the 1st person took it. Darn!

Patience, the right thing will come along for you, Everything happens for a reason.

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:12 pm 
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I would suspect in Finland that it is very hard to find a Hobie 16 which is in good condition. I had a similar problem here in New Zealand and had to ship a boat over from Australia. When I lived in the US, I drove from Austin, Texas to Detroit, Michigan to buy the right Hobie 16 and tow it back. So I know what it's like to travel far to get the boat you want.

Knowing that there are many catamaran sailors in the Stockholm area, the Netherlands, UK, and Brittany in France, that would probably be your best places (although yes, far) to find a good catamaran. Since many boats are only advertised locally for sale, try reaching out to local sailing clubs and/or yacht clubs in Stockholm, and then broaden your search.

I really doubt Europe has Craigslist, but I'm sure there is an equivalent.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:35 am
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Location: Opelika/Lake Martin, Alabama
A1cnc is right, just be patient and you will find "your" boat.
I searched for 3 or 4 months, drove 4 hours away to look at a boat that looked good in pictures but was a total mess when I saw it in person, even had thought I had struck a deal on another that was also 4 hours away only to have that one sold out from under me when I had made plans to pick it up. When I found out the boat was sold I was pretty bummed out about it, but that very day was the day I found my boat, so, it really is true that things do in fact happen for a reason.
Keep searching and good luck.

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Marty
1984 H16 Yellow Nationals Redline, "Yellow Fever"
Lake Martin, 'Bama.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:47 am 
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Location: Finland | Lake Näsijärvi
Thank you all for advises and compassion :)

Haven't been searching a vessel ever before, but thinking I have noticed the logic your trying to make me understand on other areas of life. There probably is a good reason for all these steps and disappointments required during the process of searching a good sail for me.

Method have been using so far, is not perfect. Should study and learn more beforehand to make educated choices, but current heatwave was the triggering thing for my idea to learn sailing. Makes things no easier, because this kind of weather is more than exceptional in Finland.

Still hoping to be able to start learning during the heat because weather forecasts promise more warm days week after week.

Have to stop posting my options, because today morning somebody bought the topper I was going to drive see 200km one direction today.

Image

Yesterday took some pictures of our beach where going to keep the boat. There's some more @ fb album. Should leave some space for swimmers.


Nice Sunday and good winds everyone!


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