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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:36 am 
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Catfan69 wrote:
Question on conversion triple for top block...
With 3 blocks bolted into a triple, would it be ok to hang from center block only, or would I need a triple bracket to spread load?


The through bolts will spread the load


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:51 am 
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Posts: 26
Thanks for the reply!

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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:56 am 
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Location: Bristol, IN
Hobiewonkenobi wrote:
Catfan69 wrote:
Question on conversion triple for top block...
With 3 blocks bolted into a triple, would it be ok to hang from center block only, or would I need a triple bracket to spread load?


The through bolts will spread the load



I was also wondering how the single central clevis pin would hold up to the load, since usually a double or triple block has a stainless "U" bracket which connects the two or three clevis pins, then a d-ring is used to make the connection from the boom tang to the upper/central hole in the "U" bracket. This bracket divides the load into the two/three clevis pins from all blocks instead of directing all of it though the single clevis pin if not using a bracket. The plastic on the pulley isn't that thick where the clevis pin goes through, and it is taking 100% of the pulley load at that point. I was scared that this would be the point of failure, but I see pictures of other seaway conversions, and they have used the single pin without reinforcement, and have yet to read that one has failed.

I'm happy to say that I installed mine yesterday and took the boat out to test them in 16-20mph wind with some pretty wild gusts, and they held up fine. Much easier on the hands & arm compared to the 5:1, and I didn't even have to use the ratchet. Very hard to release the line through the gusts though with the original 1/2" line which is currently installed, the gusts nearly got me a few times. I ordered some salsa 8mm line, should be here today, should spin through the blocks much easier.

I was also able to take the shrouds down from the 2nd hole from the top, all the way down to the 2nd hole from the bottom of the 7-hole shroud adjuster plate, and was just about block to block sheeted in hard. (I have the newer shroud lengths). I can't say that I noticed an improvement in pointing, but it did tame the boat down a bit, and the bow isn't trying to pitchpole the boat anymore. Before I'd have to keep my weight near the back of the boat on a reach, now I'm much more centered, without really needing to move around much.

I did notice a counter-rotated mast a few times, but that may have been because of my jib tension being too high. The triple block is connected to the forward tang on the boom. I would assume moving it to the aft tang would make the counter-rotation worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:25 am 
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SlowSL wrote:

I was also wondering how the single central clevis pin would hold up to the load, since usually a double or triple block has a stainless "U" bracket which connects the two or three clevis pins, then a d-ring is used to make the connection from the boom tang to the upper/central hole in the "U" bracket. This bracket divides the load into the two/three clevis pins from all blocks instead of directing all of it though the single clevis pin if not using a bracket. The plastic on the pulley isn't that thick where the clevis pin goes through, and it is taking 100% of the pulley load at that point. I was scared that this would be the point of failure, but I see pictures of other seaway conversions, and they have used the single pin without reinforcement, and have yet to read that one has failed.



The U bracket speading the load is of course the best engineered method, using three of the clevis pins. Probably why we don't see any break is because the flange of the clevis is below the two through bolts at the top. The force added to the clevis holds the plastic body in compression against the bolts instead of under tension where failure would be commonplace. No the load isn't getting spread across the through bolt evenly but good enough for a cheap conversion.

I got my new pulley in and put it together this weekend. I also cut the extra material off the bolts. Instead of a pad eye I just removed the ratchet mechanism(mine was worn out) and placed the becket pin and bushing in its place as a tie off. Pics to come. I still haven't done the reeveing.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:06 am 
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Took the boat out after the modification. Huge difference. Much easier to hold the mainsheet without fatiguing my hand and not relying on the cam cleat. I can see why this is standard equipment now. Second image you can see the portion of the becket that used to be on one of the singles hanging from the boom. The ratchet mechanism has been eliminated. I did have to drill the hole from 1/8" to 3/16". There is plenty of room for the bowline if you place the fat side of the knot towards the bow. I have some concerns however about rolling the blocks up with the sail at the end of the day. Usually my mainsheet is pretty wet. I'd like to remove it from the boom after sailing it. I swear I lose a pin every time I go out and I'd like to have a faster way to get it assembled to the boom and traveler car. Does anyone have any suggestions for hardware to make this easier. When the sail is flapping it is very frustrating to get the pin placed and the keyring loop(what is the formal name for this) through the hole on the pin. I'm really tired of losing hardware at the dock. Luckily my boat came with a convenience kit but I'll run out someday.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:25 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:28 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Bristol, IN
Hobiewonkenobi wrote:
Took the boat out after the modification. Huge difference. Much easier to hold the mainsheet without fatiguing my hand and not relying on the cam cleat. I can see why this is standard equipment now. Second image you can see the portion of the becket that used to be on one of the singles hanging from the boom. The ratchet mechanism has been eliminated. I did have to drill the hole from 1/8" to 3/16". There is plenty of room for the bowline if you place the fat side of the knot towards the bow. I have some concerns however about rolling the blocks up with the sail at the end of the day. Usually my mainsheet is pretty wet. I'd like to remove it from the boom after sailing it. I swear I lose a pin every time I go out and I'd like to have a faster way to get it assembled to the boom and traveler car. Does anyone have any suggestions for hardware to make this easier. When the sail is flapping it is very frustrating to get the pin placed and the keyring loop(what is the formal name for this) through the hole on the pin. I'm really tired of losing hardware at the dock. Luckily my boat came with a convenience kit but I'll run out someday.


I recently purchased a new halyard from salty dog (non OEM), and the shackle has what they call a captive pin, which works great. the pin is under tension from a spring, and has a small rod pressed in which sticks out perpendicular to the length of the pin. There is a relieve in the shackle body that the rod lays into, and is held in place by the spring tension. You simply push and twist and there is an opening in the shackle just large enough for the rod to pass through. No more lost items! Not sure where to get these, or even what they are called, but someone is making them, probably available in a variety of sizes.

https://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2536


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:02 am 
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SlowSL wrote:

I recently purchased a new halyard from salty dog (non OEM), and the shackle has what they call a captive pin, which works great. the pin is under tension from a spring, and has a small rod pressed in which sticks out perpendicular to the length of the pin. There is a relieve in the shackle body that the rod lays into, and is held in place by the spring tension. You simply push and twist and there is an opening in the shackle just large enough for the rod to pass through. No more lost items! Not sure where to get these, or even what they are called, but someone is making them, probably available in a variety of sizes.

https://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2536


That looks like it would work very well for the top. The traveler car has the receiver for the pin so I can't see it working for the lower. Maybe the solution is use the captive shackle at the top, keep the pin on the bottom and rig it on land so I only lose it on the asphalt. Thanks. The triple block is more bulky than then original single.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 5:24 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
Captive shackle on the top, Tie a light line from the shackle to maybe the block or the top loop on the boom. It will always be there and you won't lose the pin. The rings I have heard called ring-dings, don't know if that is the official name but seems to be the most common name.

Maybe one of the quick push-button pins for the bottom again with a lanyard to the block or the traveler to keep it where you want it and not lose it.

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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:02 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Clinton Lake, Kansas
When recreational sailing a 16

We always left the upper attached to the boom bail and used a quick pin to attach lower to the traveler car.
NOTE: If the hole through your traveler car is "ob round", from years of hard use, the ball stop on a quick pin may be ineffective.
Please check before you lose an expensive pin in the water (don't ask me how I know)

To make A1cnc lanyard - drill hole barely big enough for a tiny line through the pins' cup (some have hole pre-drilled) and tie it off to the traveler car, somewhere,
or drill hole in S/S part of car. If using holes tie figure eight on both bitter ends.

BTW, try putting the upper on the rear bail and crack the main sheet completely off in a tack...may help your counter rotation issue

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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:14 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:28 pm
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Location: Bristol, IN
flatlander wrote:

BTW, try putting the upper on the rear bail and crack the main sheet completely off in a tack...may help your counter rotation issue


Will try it, thanks. I generally let the main sheet out about a foot or so in a tack. Seems to help keep momentum at the end of the tack and when you begin to sheet in, gets the boat moving a tad quicker. I'm still wondering though if I just had too much tension on the jib, I pulled it on tighter than I ever had that day.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaway Conversion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:01 am 
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Location: Bristol, IN
flatlander wrote:

BTW, try putting the upper on the rear bail and crack the main sheet completely off in a tack...may help your counter rotation issue


I didn't pull on the halyard quite as hard last time I went out, and kept the sheet loose in the tack, seems to have solved the issue. I was able still able to use the forward tang on the boom.


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