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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Hey guys, hopefully you guys can see my drawing from this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xoqtr3ycwyzg ... Sv-oa?dl=0

Never mind the square top in the drawing, doubt I will need that. We have tons of wind on the Indian River here. So I don't mind losing some sail area on this "Cruiser 16 with Wings".

At 62 years old and heavy I'm not very mobile getting underneath the boom from side to side, then back up onto the wings. (And that H-16 preferred mast rake will really make it hard.)

1. So, I want to raise the boom up higher. (Yep, I know I will need a longer main sheet.).

TWO IDEAS:

A. (SHOWN) We could cut the foot of my main up at an angle to relocate the Clew to just under the first batten. Laying the sail out on the floor, the boom appears to be long enough with several inches left for out-haul. Tack and front of boom will be in the standard location on the mast, after being down-hauled.

OR

B. (NOT SHOWN) We could cut the whole foot off horizontally, to just below the first batten. But, I'm not sure if this will create problems with, say, the down-haul working properly. Sure we need to avoid the boom ending up at the sail feed slot, at least.


2. FIXED OR LOOSE FOOT?

Sail Maker was thinking he could make the foot loose-footed, (and save a few bucks over a new rope bolt along the foot), that is, if it doesn't hurt upwind performance. But first I wanted to check in with the pros here, whether that will create an out-haul or even a down-haul problem? (If so, we will simply replace the rope bolt in the foot.)

Any other pro's and con's you guys can think of between fixed-foot or loose-foot? (I am used to my H-18 loose-foot, and since this 16 is not yet rigged, not sure about ease of rolling up the sail or whatever.)

Oh, by the way, I did search for an hour, but couldn't find much. We are holding off for a day or two to hopefully get some feedback from ya.

THANKS GUYS! :D
YOU ARE A TREMENDOUS HELP AS ALWAYS!
Rambo


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:20 am
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Location: New Brighton, PA
I'm not sure of the cost involved with recutting your sail. Maybe you should look into buying a T2 mainsail, it's boom less, has a nice curve in the foot and will fit the 16 mast.

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18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:20 pm
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Location: South Boardman, Mi
A) Should work

B) This could work as well. You would have to either cut a new sail feed or go loose footed, as the bolt rope will not fit through the slot in the mast.

2) Pay careful attention to your sail camber/depth/draft. The lowest sail panel in the H16 sail has some extra shape to it to allow for proper camber. It would probably be best to go loose footed, as it will be much easier to get the sail cut correct. As far as handling ease, there is no difference in rolling up a loose vs tight footed sail. A loose footed sail has a greater range and ease of camber adjustments.

Personal recommendation: Modified option 2, loose foot with cut bolt rope.
The bottom panel in the H16 sail has a lot of nice local reinforcement. You will either have to reinforce the next panel up or have a short sail life if you just cut off the bottom. Instead consider removing, or shortening the second from the bottom sail panel. You will keep all the fancy features from the bottom panel and save yourself some effort. You will either need to cut away the bolt rope at the sail tack, or cut a sail feed slot into your mast a little higher up.


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:15 am 
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Location: Harsens Island, Michigan
Could you just reef it and use the first bead on the halyard? That would raise the foot of the sail by 14-18", right?

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1979 Hobie 16 "Orange Crusher"
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:20 pm
Posts: 395
Location: Clearwater, FL
I am 6' 3", almost 69 and usually sail solo so I decided to reduce the rake of my mast some so that it would be easier to slide under the boom. When I had the mast raked so that the main blocks could touch, I found that it was not only harder to slide under the boom, but that my bow tips were too high and my rudders had too much weather helm (even though I do sit on the side rail near the shroud and have raked my rudders under as far as possible). Reducing the mast's rake one hole on the shroud's chain plate helped level out the boat, reduced the weather helm and made it easier to slide under the boom. I know that I am sacrificing some upwind efficiency, but I am mainly a recreational sailor who likes to fly a hull and go fast on beam reaches.

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84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Blue Prism
Sail # 88863
Clearwater, FL
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:05 am 
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Location: South Boardman, Mi
Quote:
Could you just reef it and use the first bead on the halyard? That would raise the foot of the sail by 14-18", right?


You would need to modify the bolt rope to allow the sail to slide up past the feed slot in the mast. You would also need reefing points, which newer sails don't have. Lastly, it is hard to get good sail shape with reefed hobie sails, and using the reefing points every time is a hassle.

That said, if Rambo has reefing points, he can start off by modifying the bolt rope so he can use the reef points to raise the sail. The nice part about using the reef points is the boom height becomes adjustable. Try out a couple of heights, find what works and recut the sail to the new length.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Rambo Benson wrote:
Never mind the square top in the drawing, doubt I will need that. We have tons of wind on the Indian River here. So I don't mind losing some sail area on this "Cruiser 16 with Wings".

Good ideas here, although I will throw in a variation of your plan b. BTW I have the same issue on a non-Hobie cat, which happens to have a too-long mast. So I can yank the main way higher and it sails fine. Doesn't seem much more tippy or prone to submarine the bows, but I have more buoyant hulls than yours.

Consider doing your sail height reduction at the head rather than the foot to give a square or radial headed sail just like Hobie's newer Wave, Getaway, or Bravo. Put in an angled up batten at the top, and you can horizontally lift the boom at least near the sail feed slot. The sail CE will be shifted a tad aft, so maybe this means it will easily accept more forward rake. I have a square head mainsail and I was surprised at how well it works, without compromising the leech tension.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:28 am 
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Hey guys! Sorry I've been away for a bit. Please check out the new sail photos at:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g4uv26bxw5o5 ... WHc1a?dl=0

Legendary Scott Morgan, in Cocoa Village, Florida was such a nice, patient guy to work with. You can't do better. He is currently building all the C/F sails for former USA Olympic Tornado Silver Medal winner Keith Notary, for his incredible 75 foot catamaran.

The Jib work, cutting the leech, building clew patches and window came to $220 (before tax)

The Main work, Cutting the foot up and rebuilding the clew patches, window, batten pocket, plus a bunch of repairs on the luff rope and redoing all batten caps and restitching the leech came to $551 before tax.

So, to catch up with you guys...

Hi Buxton:
Cool idea on the T2 sail. I think I did OK though... The Main work including all orepairs and materials came to $515 so I still have my matching Blue Hawaii Main and Jib, now having Big Windows to see though, while up on the Wings!

Speed633: All excellent advice that we considered carefully. Scott decided to stay with the loose-foot and tilted up boom, because he was very comfortable rebuilding the clew and tack reinforcement patches and the loose foot. But that's a great idea to just take out a rectangular patch below the batten and move the whole bottom panel up to save all that effort! THANKS!

Steve:
Thanks but I think reefing would raise the foot up the mast and reduced sail area more than what we wanted. The reef grommets are halfway up the second panel, above the first batten. (See the first photo in the link)
Also... The mainsheet from my H18 is going to work with the foot or so it's raised now, but probably would not, going that high. But yeah, that would have been super cheap otherwise!

Hey Tim: Yep, like you... I'm for just having fun. In addition to my raised boom, I won't be raking mast too much either. Don't like excessive weather helm, wears ya out for the important part... flying hulls... Thanks!

Hi Daft: Really good idea, had not even considered trimming from the top. Too late, dang it. Oh well on the downside my stripes would not have lined up. Oh, plus I had lots of other repairs too, so I still feel good about what Scott did.

I was thinking I might go back and add a patch to make a square top later, (See my first link's square-top drawing, in the first post). Like you mentioned, I would just extend the battens up there, borrowing them from my old 18. But, I thinbk we have plenty of wind to fly hulls on the Indian River so probably won't end up doing it...

But damn, somebody else might use your idea. That would have been a piece of cake!

All: It will be a little while before I modify my H-18 SX wing brackets to fit the H-16,
(Whoah, maybe I need to shorten those SX wings to Magnum size for the 16?),
Plus get all new rigging and maybe do some vehicle wrapped hulls with my artwork, then hit the River... but I'll post an update when I do!

Thanks VERY much for ALL your help!

Wavey Too - Cruiser 16
Rambo


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:06 am 
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Rambo Benson wrote:
I was thinking I might go back and add a patch to make a square top later, (See my first link's square-top drawing, in the first post). Like you mentioned, I would just extend the battens up there, borrowing them from my old 18. But, I thinbk we have plenty of wind to fly hulls on the Indian River so probably won't end up doing it...

The square/radial top isn't just a way to add area; according to boat racing sites it is mainly to increase efficiency by reducing vortices at the top. I think this translates into less drag and thus better angle into the wind or better speed. The H16 probably stays as retro triangle to maintain racing class look-alikes. Here is a picture of energy robbing aircraft vortices from wingtips.

Image

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