sheeting in, but keeping the sheets out of the cam

Hello,

Quick question: How do you sail with the main sheet (or jib sheet for that matter) sheeted in, but OUT of the cam (to quicken reaction time when I need to dump power)?

It seems very/too difficult to keep the sheet out of the cam -- any suggestions? or is it just finesse?


Sincere thanks!


Mike

'86 H14 Turbo

I do it all the time by just watching to make sure the sheet is not cleated. If it does get cleated a quick whip of the line and it's free. It has become second nature for me to look after I sheet in.

The mount the cleat is on is adjustable. If you have a hard time keeping from cleating maybe adjust it to suit you.

That would help and probably make it more enjoyable for you

_________________
84 14T Redline #67 Blue Hawaii faded but still working!
82 Yellow hull16 '81 Boomer nationals 20.9 on GPS
83 White hull 16 No sails "Clean and Purty Now!"
87 White hull no sails no tramp

If your lower blocks have a ratchet mechanism, that will help some. Even with the ratchet engaged on my original 5:1 setup, with some beefy diameter and soft line, my arm would get destroyed after about an hour in some stiff wind.

I converted my original Seaways to a 6:1 setup, and it is perfect now. I never use the ratchet, and I can work the sheet uncleated all day long without fatigue. I also went with a smaller diameter salsa line as well so that they could travel through the blocks easier. This also requires gloves to be used since the new line is a bit slippery with the bare hand. I also set the angle on the lower cleat so that you really have to pull up pretty far to get the line cleated, in order to prevent accidentally cleating, and to ensure a quick and easy uncleating when needed. I leave the jib cleated for the most part.

You should be able to adjust the angle of the cam relative to the lower block. Adjust the cam up if you want to keep the sheet from automatically engaging into the cam.

Personally, I don’t know how or why anyone would want to NOT use the cam cleat. With some practice, snapping the sheet out of the cleat will become second nature and virtually instantaneous. That, combined with the reflex to gradually steer the boat up into the wind as the hull rises will prevent most capsizes. Just as important is to keep your eyes looking upwind to see when the puffs are coming BEFORE they get to you so you can be prepared when they hit.

I could not imagine sailing a full day without using the cleat.

sm

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that mmarzolf is talking high winds? One thing about inland lakes, the way the wind rolls over the trees, and over the water makes extremely gusty, unpredictable wind at times, there is no space for it to kind of even out before it reaches the other end. If you take 1/2 of a second to react to a 25mph gust, you cannot sheet out or steer into the wind fast enough, so I always leave it uncleated. Calmer wind and there should be no problems cleating.

All of these comments are super helpful -- thanks!

Yes, exactly re: inland lakes, and gusts


Thanks again!

I agree with srm, I keep my mainsheet normally cleated in the cam. I have my cam angled so that all I have to do is pull on the main sheet and it uncleats.

I find it easier to use the rudders to turn into the wind more during a gust than working the main sheet all the time. Using the rudders this way is sort of like scalloping.

Using the rudders instead also takes the pressure off of both the main and jib at the same time.

If you need to quickly sheet out too often, then you probably are over sheeted and need to set your traveler out some more.

_________________
Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

I do a lot of small lake sailing, am frequently hit with gusts, and cleat my main sheet. I didn't cleat in the beginning, but as I gained experience with the boat, I began cleating it more and more often. It's a matter of instantly responding with a quick flick of the wrist that pops the cleat and steering into the wind. It also helps to make sure your head is out of the boat and watching the water for gusts coming at you.

I'm actually trying to get out of the habit of uncleating when hit with a gust and instead simply steer into the wind. As Tim says, steering into the wind depowers both the jib and the main, and should be easier to fine tune. If the goal is to maximize one's speed, then one's goal is also figuring out how to maximize gusts. In other words, learning how to keep the pressure in your sails and not let it go to waste. Personally I've never found that when you let go of the sheet to avoid a knockdown, you let go of the right amount. Usually you let out a lot more than you need, and slow down.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Another lake sailor here.

I can't say i've ever sailed with the jib un-cleated. Usually because of the 2:1 action on the jib sheet it's too much to hold it especially on strong days even if your crew is managing it.

For the mainsail the conditions entirely dictate the approach, but specifically on gusty/unpredictable days, I'll use the ratcheting block action AND the cleat to sheet in/out under control with one hand. Taking your hand off the tiller for a moment is a gamble because even if the you can't un-cleat the main sheet you can always head up to de-power. That being said, once i've sheeted to the sail shape I want, i un-cleat the main sheet and use the ratchet action to hold tension on the main sheet such that in less than a second I can let the sheet slide from my grip and de-power.

An additional point. I always hold the main sheet (on wild days) so that the the main sheet to the block and the traveler and in my forward hand with no slack on either end of the line and the main block un-cleated. Rear hand is always on the tiller and only used to hold the sheet when i'm repositioning my forward hand to reach further down to sheet in harder. With both ends in my hand i can let the block end slide and de-power, but with the traveler end there as well, in those really hard shifts, I can also quickly un-cleat the traveler and let the boom REALLY swing to dump the wind.

This is really not a fast/racing approach but meant to make sure my wife still comes out with me on the water. Doing this, I haven't turned my boat over once, but I'm not really riding the edge too hard, just lifting the leeward hull up some.

Great points, all

Thanks again everyone!


Mike

I'm not sure if you just need a cam adjustment to make it uncleat easier or want to keep it uncleated.

I very seldom cleat my main, always holding it. I find sailing on our lake if you want to fly the hull any distance, slight adjustments in the sheet and rudder are constant. I also like the pull back feel from the sheet in my hand, like the gas pedal in my car. With time you will learn that if you've let out too much sheet, you can let go of the steering and use both hands to quickly sheet in a little, the boat will start to round up but if your quick you can do it.

_________________
Buxton
18' T16 Silent Lightning (16' T2 Hybrid)
11' H16 White Lightning
79' H16 Green Lightning