Your mast base/step looks like the type shown in the 2001 Hobie Cat Brasil Assembly Manual:
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| Red line delamination http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70056 |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Red line delamination |
Hi, I am planning to make a 1400km journey to purchase a 2000 H16 from Germany. I currently own a 75 American made boat. I ve done a lot of delam repairs to it, but nothing that major for its significant age (around maybe 30 injection holes in total) So my question is - are red line boats immune to delam or is it still possible? I mean, one should rly try a lot to destroy new hulls right? Keep them on 55 degrees sun and so on.. I'm asking because its a long drive and I am 100% buying the boat when I arrive. Owner is 83 y o and he says he keeps it in a shed for winter and the hulls are solid. Photos look good too. Price is 1900 euro |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Any hull could delaminate. Less likey on newer boats, but I have seen it. |
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| Author: | srm [ Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Not that it matters that much for your question, but if the boat was made in 2000, then technically it is not a “red line” boat. The red line boats were only made during a few years in the mid 1980’s. A year 2000 boat would not actually be a red line boat but would be built just as well or better than one. And to reiterate what Matt said - any hull, or frankly any composite sandwich construction, could delaminate. Local impact stress, cyclical loading, heat, and moisture are the enemies of sandwich constructions and will eventually break down the bond between the fiberglass and the core material. sm |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Understood. Thank you. Welp, lets hope the owner is honest. Otherwise i will need to jump on the fix and repair wagon again. |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
So i went to Germany and bought the thing. The hulls are solid. All is well, except one thing... there is no mast step hole. The boat is 2000 made. Has all the features of a 2000. SNs show the same. The mast is also new (has the shackle to pass in the new jib halyard system and its all black). The bottom casting does not end with a hook like on the old models. Its a round thing, just without the hole in it. And the part that is on the boat has a horizontal pin like the old boats. So what is this thing? Its a French made boat. Did they changed to the new design in the 2000s? |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Mast step should be the same. Cup with a Teflon chip bearing. Mast base is a knob / ball. Maybe not a Hobie 16? They made a bunch of different stuff in Europe than what we have here in the US. Photos? |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
You may have not understood me. Sorry if my English is poor. Older pre 70 boats had a hook at the base of the mast in order to rise the mast. Normal boats use a mast step link to rise it. Including my 75 Hobie 16. This thing i just bought does not have a hook at the bottom, but also does not have the small hole for the mast step link. I dont think the hook has broken off, because the area where it should have been is just round as on a normal mast. Maybe someone filed it off? The base on the catamaran itself also does not have a hole. It just has a horizontal pin inserted where the holes should be. Other than that my new boat has all the features of a 2000+ boat. It has integrated rails for all the sheets. Aluminum is all black. Has factory installed rubber on the sides. The modern jib halyard, etc. I will try to figure it out how to share photos from my Google acc. |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Here, try these links. https://photos.app.goo.gl/fBzsdSkw4c8nidMp8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/BcubPFENSoAj5pJw8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/sh1izUMrCHXc3aHX9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/wTtSXwC9TyX5kAfz5 https://photos.app.goo.gl/42iMP46bCsagRwE69 |
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| Author: | gford [ Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
From the pictures it appears that there are dimples in both castings where the holes should be. They just have not been drilled yet. You could drill them out yourself. Its just aluminum. But why are they like that? It appears to me that both castings are not original to the cat. At some point in time, they have been replaced. You can tell by the fit and finish of both. Greg H16 1984 |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
I will drill them for sure. It is no problem for me. I was just curious what the hell is this. It does not make any sense. Why would the castings be replaced. Also, the lower one has a horizontal pin in it like on the pre 70 boats. The owner said this boat was used as a demonstrator before he bought it. Whatever that means. He also said the mast step link was used on the "older" models and that i should take down the mast like it is. He didn't bother disassemble the thing knowing i was gonna drive 1500 km to get it. So the result obviously was that i dropped the mast and it almost fell on my friend's head. |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
I have just found another boat for sale in Germany with the same issue. Year 1978. It also does not have a hole in the mast step. It is the same shape as mine. Maybe i should not drill it and try to rise it like it is? Perhaps we are missing something? Photo: https://img.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/api/v ... le=$_1.JPG https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 1-211-5724 |
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| Author: | rattle 'n hum [ Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
This is indeed puzzling, but I'm only familiar with US H16s, so there may be differences. However, I don't think you're "missing something." Further, I cannot imagine routinely stepping the mast without the hinge/pin kit installed. Since the parts are somewhat suspect, I'd recommend you verify the hole location before drilling the base (the part on the mast). The mast can be safely raised even without the hinge if you get a friend (preferably a big, strong one) to help. From in front of the main beam, have them apply pressure downward and backward near the bottom of the mast to keep the base in the step (the part on the boat) as you raise the mast. Once the mast is up and the forestay pinned, mark where the hole in the base needs to be drilled. If there will be plenty of material remaining around the drilled hole, you should be okay. Drill out the rolled pin in the step and install the hinge kit. If this doesn't work, you won't have lost much time or effort. You'll just need to acquire and install a new base (and hope it matches up properly with your step). |
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| Author: | sashmeister [ Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Exactly what i intend to do. First i was about to follow these measurements to drill the hole: https://media.hobie.com/digital_assets/21380001.pdf But then i decided to get the mast up and mark it where it needs to go. I need to take into consideration my style of mast rake as well before drilling, so it is best to take it up first. What is really puzzling is that both these masts i should you do not have a hook. I dont think it has broken off. I think this is the way it was designed. No idea how these weird French guys take this thing up all by them selves. Two people - maybe. But alone, its just too risky without the step link. |
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| Author: | Tim H16 [ Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
Your mast base/step looks like the type shown in the 2001 Hobie Cat Brasil Assembly Manual:
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| Author: | rattle 'n hum [ Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red line delamination |
[quote="Tim H16"]Your mast base/step looks like the type shown in the 2001 Hobie Cat Brasil Assembly Manual: Yep. What's extra weird is that the instructions below the pic direct you to install the step link/hinge. (???) That said, the way that hook is engaged in the slot below the pin, it looks like it might work as is without the hinge. Kinda iffy, though. |
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