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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:02 pm 
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I have a 12 that was damaged in shipping. They were supposed to send me another but the shipping company has some issues so the mail order company is giving me a refund. After this experience I don't want to even attempt to order another kayak by mail . I found a few dealers within 1-2 hours away and going looking this weekend.

The one I am going to first said they have the thermal and will have the roto in towards the end of August.

I see many posts saying Roto is better but is it really or is this just marketing hype? I have already waited a month trying to get a non damaged passport so I don't mind waiting if it's going to be worth it. I don't see anything wrong with the thermal (other than the shipping damage) but I am no expert.

Would you wait or go for thermal?

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:32 pm 
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Quote:
Would you wait or go for thermal?


My 2 cents...

1. The two Passport models are the only Hobie Mirage Kayaks that are Thermoformed. All the others (except the ACE-TEC Lynx) are Rotomolded.

2. Hobie has over 2 decades experience with Rotomolded kayak manufacturing.

3. The two Passport models are now being offered Rotomolded. Why? Why is Hobie now offering a different manufacturing process with the same price, weight, and capacity? Does it make sense to manufacture the same kayak two different ways? (My guess is the Passports were initially Thermoformed because that is what the factory selected to make them in France was familiar with, and the pandemic severely limited new manufacturing partners able to meet Hobie's needs. I expect all Passports in the future will be Rotomolded.)

4. Rotomolding process ensures more consistent hull thickness.

5. Rotomoldied plastic is probably the most common kayak manufacturing process in use today.

If I were buying a Passport I would only want one that was Rotomolded.

Peter

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2016 Hobie Oasis with Evolve v2 rudder mount, Sidekick ama kit, Mirage sail kit, Garmin echoMAP CHIRP 42dv, bilge pump
2007 Hobie Outfitter x 2 with Mirage sail kits, large rudder blades


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:43 am 
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plfinch wrote:
Quote:
Would you wait or go for thermal?


My 2 cents...

1. The two Passport models are the only Hobie Mirage Kayaks that are Thermoformed. All the others (except the ACE-TEC Lynx) are Rotomolded.

2. Hobie has over 2 decades experience with Rotomolded kayak manufacturing.

3. The two Passport models are now being offered Rotomolded. Why? Why is Hobie now offering a different manufacturing process with the same price, weight, and capacity? Does it make sense to manufacture the same kayak two different ways? (My guess is the Passports were initially Thermoformed because that is what the factory selected to make them in France was familiar with, and the pandemic severely limited new manufacturing partners able to meet Hobie's needs. I expect all Passports in the future will be Rotomolded.)

4. Rotomolding process ensures more consistent hull thickness.

5. Rotomoldied plastic is probably the most common kayak manufacturing process in use today.

If I were buying a Passport I would only want one that was Rotomolded.

Peter



That was the kind of information I was looking for....

Thanks....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:06 am 
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I love plfinch and respect his knowledge and opinion.... But personal I see no difference in the quality of the product itself.
Thermo deck hull has a 1/4" thickness. Thats pretty amazing for a Kayak.

I am very happy with my 2022 12 made in France.

Going through a dealer is your best decision.

Enjoy the waves.


Last edited by Tarazona01 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:09 am 
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I probably should have stated it but "there is absolutely nothing wrong with thermoform manufactured Passports" and I did not mean to imply differently. This is a tried and true manufacturing process. And Hobie may very well continue to sell them in European markets while selling the new R rotomolded version in the Americas. But given the cost of transporting kayaks across the pond, it seems unlikely both would continue to be available in all markets. My guess is right now they are being sourced from France and the US (maybe elsewhere too) using the dominant manufacturing methods of those factories. As for me, my previous post is facts followed by opinion, and I would prefer the R version here in the states.

Peter

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2007 Hobie Outfitter x 2 with Mirage sail kits, large rudder blades


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:12 pm 
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Point well taken.
Can get a 2022 12 now... just do it.
Bird in Hand scenario.
Prices will be going up on the 2023's is my take.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:41 pm 
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Tarazona01 wrote:
Prices will be going up on the 2023's is my take.


But you can order the R now at the same price as the 2022 non-R Passports.

Peter

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2016 Hobie Oasis with Evolve v2 rudder mount, Sidekick ama kit, Mirage sail kit, Garmin echoMAP CHIRP 42dv, bilge pump
2007 Hobie Outfitter x 2 with Mirage sail kits, large rudder blades


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:26 pm 
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Looks like big decision for fletchb.


Last edited by Tarazona01 on Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:08 pm 
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We are taking a trip on Saturday to visit the dealer . Right now I am leaning towards the R because I think plfinch may be right about them dropping the thermal at some point and that would drop resale value. After seeing the damage on this thermal 12, I don't think there is anything really wrong with them. Someone dropped boat on side on seam in 2 places and it has held fine. It has gashes from a sharp objects and other than the scars, it is fine. But still will go with the R to be safe.

So if I like what the dealers says and he can get me an R in a reasonable time frame, I will probably buy it Saturday.

Then I will have to repeat process for fiancé. She has already said the 12 is way too big and heavy and she wants something smaller. I would love to get her a Lynx but concerned about durability so probably a 10.5 . Then the sail kits :)

Thanks for the advice....!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:24 pm 
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UPDATE:

Took our road trip today and liked the dealer. He is not going to have the R for another month or so but will call when they know more. They did have Lynx in stock so grabbed one of those for the fiancé .

As for myself, they did recommend waiting for the R or get a Compass over thermal. While I am waiting, will just borrow her Lynx:)

The interstate was a mad house so we took back roads home and it is dark so will do the Lynx maiden tomorrow.

Thanks for all the advice!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:53 pm 
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A great trip worth its time.
U can't go wrong with any of your purchases.
Dealer should also be very happy.
Enjoy
Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:23 pm 
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Tarazona01 wrote:
A great trip worth its time.
U can't go wrong with any of your purchases.
Dealer should also be very happy.
Enjoy
Tom

Thanks- This was a big improvement dealing with someone face to face compared to mail order. This dealer told me they don't even ship any more due to the same issue I was having .

Just got back from the maiden voyage and really impressed with the Lynx. I may get one instead of the passport after trying it first hand. The passport needs the Lynx rudder and chair as they are both a big improvement. Fiancé is very new to this and is honestly scared. But she did great and was able to get in the seat with no issue. She was able to take it out for a quick spin and return on her own with no issues- last time on another kayak she could not turn around and I had to go swimming. She told me afterwards that she likes it but is scared so will take her a bit to get used to it.

I was impressed with the boat and may get one myself!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:33 pm 
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Y I would wait! Prices significantly increased in past few years. Love my thermoformed, but I would trade for a rough and tumble rotomolded in a heartbeat. Have fun however you go


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:47 am 
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My wife loves her Lynx. She is not a sailor like myself.
I think the PP 12 will work best for you if you want speed and stability for sailing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:38 pm 
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Well I am just doing the waiting game right now and it's just as well because I am going to have a hard time deciding between the Passport R and the Lynx. I took the Lynx out for the second time this weekend and the seat and rudder are really spoiling me. With all it's foam, stability is not an issue for the Lynx- it reminds me of my "real" boat, a Boston Whaler that is very stable and full of foam.

But passport should take chop better and that's why it's still in the running. It's going to be tougher as well.

At the same time, fiancé is going to never want to be in rough water. This weekend there was a lot of wake issues do to large boats and Jet skis running fast close to the shore so she chickened out.
A co worker suggested a no wake zone at the harbor and we are going to have to do that or some other no wake zone so she can get some seat time.

So Hobie, hurry up and get the R out there to the dealers so I can decide what to do :)

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