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| Misadventure with new sail...I need advice http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14182 |
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| Author: | send4help [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
So I got my new square top Whirlwind main. Had a sail, took it really easy. No sweat. Went out again, and when I got back I could not get the sail down. Turns out the luff had come out of the channel at the top of the sail. The top 18 inches or so. Any ideas why this would have happened? What I may have done wrong? Some background info: The new sail is a bit longer than the original, so I don't have as much length of downhaul underneath it. Immediately after leaving the shore I noticed the ring had slipped off and sail was coming down a little. I got the boat in irons and managed to get the sail back up. A little later I noticed my downhaul was slack. Did this have something to do with it? Any ideas? Thanks, Dan |
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| Author: | bock1 [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
hmmm. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have come out of the luff track if you had the down haul tightened since that has the effect off keeping the bolt rope (thickened cord sewn into the luff of the sail) tight and vertical. However, a bigger issue to me is: I think the bolt rope should be thick enough so that the sail cannot come out the luff track. It may be that the rope they sewed in is too narrow in caliber. We'll see if anyone else can confirm that... |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
It's not any of the above. It's a fairly common occurrance with newer sails with Teflon bolt ropes (like new Hobie sails and presumably the Whirlwind sails). The bolt rope is slippery enough that it forces the plastic Comptip track open at the top under significant mainsheet tension. The cure is the "Luff Track Update" part #50404111 which replaces the top 18" of plastic luff track on the Comptip with an aluminum extrusion. |
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| Author: | send4help [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
MBounds wrote: It's not any of the above. It's a fairly common occurrance with newer sails with Teflon bolt ropes (like new Hobie sails and presumably the Whirlwind sails). The bolt rope is slippery enough that it forces the plastic Comptip track open at the top under significant mainsheet tension. The cure is the "Luff Track Update" part #50404111 which replaces the top 18" of plastic luff track on the Comptip with an aluminum extrusion. How difficult is it to change it out, once you have the part? thanks, |
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| Author: | widerisbetter [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
I have heard of this problem on another forum (beachcats.com I think). I have never seen the aluminum extrusion before this - but it looks fairly easy to install. The solution I have seen is to have a second layer of cloth added to the top few inches over the existing bolt to make thick enough to not pull out. Just making it heavier in the top few inches should suffice and also not make the sail more difficult to set. Here's a temporary solution:build up the head of the luff by wrapping a few layers of sail tape around the luff at the very top 6 layers should be a build of just over 1/8th. That should make the head thick enough to not pull out. A permanent solution may require a few hours with a sewing palm, or a local loft, OR asking the sail manufacturer to do this. (Dan - is the foot of the sail still in the luff groove of the mast when you apply downhaul or is the new sail THAT much longer that it pulls into in the feed-slot, not the luff groove ? ) |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
send4help wrote: How difficult is it to change it out, once you have the part? Instructions come with the kit. You remove the plastic Comptip track (very easy), cut the proper length off, install the Al piece (I believe you use a hammer / screwdriver - it snaps on, but it's a hard snap), then reinstall the plastic track (fairly easy). If everything goes well, it takes about 15-30 minutes. |
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| Author: | fastcat [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
I have a 2000 H17Sport, got a whirlwind square top 3 seasons ago (~ 100 trips sailing so far) and have had no problems with the top pulling out (I have the 18 inch metal track at the mast head). So Mbounds solution should do the trick. As to sail luff length, yes I agree that Chip at Whirlwind builds them just a shade too long. Another change I would like to see is the bottom batten pocket extend all the way to the leech of the sail. 
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| Author: | send4help [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
I just did a search on how to replace the luff track. I found a good instruction page for replacing the H18 luff track. Is it the same for the 17? What would be a good instrument for cutting the plastic and the metal? and for smoothing the cut edges? Dan |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
send4help wrote: I found a good instruction page for replacing the H18 luff track. Is it the same for the 17? Yes. send4help wrote: What would be a good instrument for cutting the plastic and the metal? Hacksaw.  send4help wrote: and for smoothing the cut edges? How about a file? 
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| Author: | fastcat [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
If you have a Dremel http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/CategoryProducts.aspx?catid=13you can do both the cutting and smoothing. If you don't consider getting one. It works well for lots of stuff. Harbor Freight has cheap China knockoffs, but you get what you pay for. 
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| Author: | send4help [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
I was just thinking of that. I have one and it is at the lake. thanks, everyone. Dan |
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| Author: | srm [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
I installed the aluminum track extrusion in an older mast a few years ago because I was having this same problem- top of the sail pulling out. The aluminum track will solve this issue. However, I could not get the aluminum track to snap on. Can't remember everything I did to try to get it to pop on, but I couldn't get it (I think I even tried to use a mallet to pop it on with no luck). I ended up taking off the aluminum mast cap, sliding the track into place, and then re-riveting the cap back on. Took a little longer than the way Hobie tells you to do it, but it worked. sm |
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| Author: | send4help [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
Mariner-sails got me the luff update in 2 days! They get an A+ from me. now I'll get to have some fun putting it on. |
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| Author: | fastcat [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
Looks like your repair is right on Track 
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| Author: | send4help [ Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Misadventure with new sail...I need advice |
Interesting weekend...I got to the lake Firday afternoon. it was, of course, perfect for sailing. But I had my repair to do. I had one buddy to help drop the mast, and I did the repair. It went very easily, as described in the instructions. (this amazes me when this actually happens)...but by the time my buddy could come back to raise the mast, it was nearly dark, and the wind was dead anyway. But, I was all set for Saturday. Saturday, AM,,,and the luff won't advance past the junction between the old plastic luff track, and the new aluminum piece. Dead stop...So..I and another bud drop the mast and I run the sail up. No burs, no filings,, but due to the age and wear of the old plastic, it's a little wider than the new aluminum track...so we took a screwdriver and just "shoe-horned" the new track a little wider. We raised the mast and it worked!!! I went sailing!! And the sail came down when I wanted it to, at the end of the trip. Sunday...the sail would not go up. This time instead of dropping the mast, I took a pair of pliers and "squished" the butt end of the luff bolt and took sail repair tape and created a tapered end, and with some silicone spray, she worked, and a successful sail was had. I'm contemplating ways of modifying the butt end of the luff bolt into some kind of bullet shaped taper. Got any ideas? or cautions?? It just gets frustrating to have to fool around with this every time I want to go out. thanks, Dan |
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