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 Post subject: Hobie 17 with Tiger mast
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:06 am
Posts: 3
Hi, my first post. I feel like I'm in some deep problem. So I bought a hobie 18 a couple of months ago, or so I thought...
The seller mentioned that it had a higher mast than usual, a mast from a Hobie Tiger. All well and good i thought, a bit more power might be nice. Then it turned out that the hull is only a Hobie 17. The mainsail is a fathead compared to the more triangular original sail of the 17.

So my main problem is that the boat has extreme weather helm while going upwind. It requres full concentration, strength and often both hands to keep her steady. I often have to ease the traveler like 5" (10cm) to ease the rudder pressure.
I have raked the rudders as far forwards as they go, that didn't help much... I have eased the shrouds a few notches aswell to rake the mast further forwards. I'm not sure if that helped. The season is over here for me since it is to cold to sail.

Is there anyone with similar experience? Any suggestions?
Should i continue to rake the mast forwards? Buy a bigger jib for counterbalance?
Sell the boat to some unsuspecting poor fool like me?
Cut the mast down to size, attach the right hardware, buy a real H17 main? Or buy a new mast :( (Sounds expensive..)
Angle the rudders more forwards or backwards?

On a side note.
I have a 5mm halyard for the main that runs inside the mast track. If left unsupervised during takedowns it will slide up and jam against the boltrope and the sail. Super anoying and really hard to remove.


A lot of rambling but I hope for some good ideas :)

Alexander, northern Sweden


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:50 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 3714
Location: Jersey Shore
It sounds like you've already done this, but I would make sure the rudders are raked as far forward as possible and that they are locking down properly. You may even need to re-drill the holes in the rudders to allow them to kick farther under the hull.

Also, I would suggest that you experiment with the downhaul tension. A Tiger rig should have a very powerful downhaul system (12:1 or so I would guess). Adding more downhaul tension will flatten the top of the sail, move the draft forward, and allow the top of the sail to twist open. All of these things should help to reduce the amount of pull on the rudders. Don't be afraid to put on an extreme amount of downhaul tension to help balance out the helm.

I would be careful about raking the mast too far forward because I could see that leading to problems with the bows wanting to dive when sailing downwind, especially with the extra sail area up high.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 5177
Location: Detroit, MI
I knew I had seen this movie before - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPRagth5aRQ


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 469
Location: Rockford, IL
I've had a couple of 17s and I always thought they were a bit underpowered, so that sounds great to me. Although the seller shouldn't have misrepresented it. So it has pivoting centerboards instead of inserted daggerboards?
You could add the Hobie Sport Cat jib to it. That would move the center of effort forward, and give you more power. Always with the more power!

_________________
Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:16 am 
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Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 9:11 am
Posts: 5
Hi,

the bigger mast has beside its advantages its disadvantage as well.
It has more weight that pushes down on the front crossbar. Since the front crossbar has already its weak points - search the forum for replace / fix of the front crossbar - I would look very carefully on the riveted bolts from below of the crossbar if there are cracks in the front crossbar after you have disassembled it from the hull.
(Perhaps I am here to anxious, because I just had to replace it, because there were too many cracks.)

Regards, Felix


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:06 am
Posts: 3
Thanks everybody for the great suggestions!
It sure looks like the same cat in the video!
Yes to pivoting centerboards.
The season is about to start and i will try the following things to make it work:
* Extreme downhaul tension
* Original sail hoisted from a jurry rigged block at the correct height at the mast. Since i dont have a halyard lock for it and i dont think the little pully at the mast head is strong enough.
* Raking mast and rudders a little more forward. I havent noticed any tendencies to diving yet but we will se.

* Trying to contact the author of the video for tips and tricks!


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 9:18 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 3714
Location: Jersey Shore
alol0020 wrote:
* Extreme downhaul tension
* Original sail hoisted from a jurry rigged block at the correct height at the mast. Since i dont have a halyard lock for it and i dont think the little pully at the mast head is strong !


Without the correct halyard hook, there is no way you will be able to properly downhaul the sail. I suspect this is likely the root of your problem - oversized rig which can not be properly tuned/depowered. Without proper downhaul, the power in the sail will be too far aft and too high, which will overload the rudders. You need to have a properly functioning halyard lock system.

You also never confirmed whether you were properly locking down the rudders (and that they are staying down). If the rudders are kicked up, even a little bit, the boat will be virtually un-sailable.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:06 am
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So i got in contact with the previous owner and practically solved all my problems.
The mast was cut to the appropriate size and the sail resewn to fit the shorter mast :)
I noticed that the holes for the bolts on the rudder were several sizes to large causing fore-aft play and angling the rudders too far back.
Redrilled using a template and noticed extreme difference! Soo much better. Some fine tuning remains.

I'm noticing the diving tendencies so I'm going to rake the mast further back.
Furhter on the list is to stop the annoying leaks in both hulls. Might be gaskets that need replacing.

The forestay is really wierd

Schematic view
(top of mast) ------ swivel and pulley with beckett(?) [1]
eye splice ---- swaged split<
------------------wire that could be used as a forestay. [2]


I don't get this at all, right now i have the wire [1] stowed along the mast and use two with my furler having jib luff and the jib halyard acting as a forestay. Anyone recognize this system and know how it is supposed to be used?


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