RobPatt wrote:
avoid pitchpoling... ?
That's what turbos do...
That's what turbos do...
Really?
That doesn't give me any incentive to one day upgrade to 'Turbo' and get a jib
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| Pitch-pole fun and righting advice http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23321 |
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| Author: | findbluesky [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Hi, After a winter completely re building a H14T I've been sailing it very successfully solo, and with two of us, and have to say to be honest I'm quite pleased with my handiwork - it floats for a start! I now need some assistance with actually sailing the thing! I was cruising along today, single handed on the trapeze, just popping the hull out of the water and generally having a great time in the sun when the hull did the inevitable and I pitchpoled. I swam it around so the mast was pointing into the wind, chucked the righting line over the hull and leant back on it. Couldn't get it upright. After ten minutes a friendly guy on a RIB came over and offered to lift the mast out of the water. So I need some advice: 1. How can I avoid pitchpoling?! When on the trapeze I stand on the side bar, should I stand right back on the hull? Should I adjust my rigging? 2. How can I right the cat on my own? Where on the hull should I stand? I found out that if I stood at the back the hull sinks and does some comedy cartwheel thing which I'm sure was very entertaining for the people watching me. Any advice greatly appreciated. Alan |
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| Author: | xnomad [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
First time I tried righting my H-14 I couldn't do it either (practice capsize) in very very light winds and I'm 65 kg. The next time I tried righting it was in 10 - 15 Knots (practice capsize as well). The wind did all the work, it came right up. I find the mast has to be perpendicular to the wind so that it can get under the sail and push it up. I'd imagine the mast pointing into the wind would be counter productive? I haven't tried it since, but I figured I'll only capsize for real, in strong wind and that if there's no wind I won't capsize anyway. You've got me nervous now, I'll have to try again...it seemed real easy the last time. I just stood in the centre of the hull and leaned back on the line so that I was parallel with the water in a horizontal position. I also found raking my mast back helped keep the bows out of the water, which is the standard way to improve pitch pole prevention. Prior to that I was sitting right in the rear corner struggling to keep them up. Since raking the mast back I can affect the pitch attitude with just minor adjustments. I'm a cautious guy so I keep a watchful eye on the bows and so far I haven't pitch poled yet. |
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| Author: | findbluesky [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Interesting, I thought I'd have to have the mast pointing into the wind but I see what you mean. I'll try it again tomorrow - capsizing on purpose this time! I'll be changing the mast rake too, did you add any more shackles/shorten any wires or just use the adjustment that is there, because I don't think I have a lot of scope for adjusting it - perhaps one or two holes on the forestay if I remember correctly. Thanks for the advice, Alan |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
findbluesky wrote: Interesting, I thought I'd have to have the mast pointing into the wind but I see what you mean. I'll try it again tomorrow - capsizing on purpose this time! I'll be changing the mast rake too, did you add any more shackles/shorten any wires or just use the adjustment that is there, because I don't think I have a lot of scope for adjusting it - perhaps one or two holes on the forestay if I remember correctly. Thanks for the advice, Alan Add another 7-hole adjuster if you need more forestay length. |
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| Author: | RobPatt [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
avoid pitchpoling... ? That's what turbos do... Seriously....w/that jib, and going off the wind... you can watch it like nobodies business.... blink, and you're in the drink. Push it hard, don't cleat the main.... "maybe" you could furl the jib a little... or let it out a bit, but I hate it luffing. Get out far on the trap... move WAY back...put a foot on the rear hull deck if you have to. (add no-slip there). It's gonna happen w/a jib when you're going downhill 'else you're not sailing hard enough! Watch the swells if you got that much wind prob have waves too... Practice righting and have fun, congrats on the "new" boat. |
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| Author: | findbluesky [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Ah yes, I did think about standing on the rear hull deck - in fact I tried it and it seemed to work. I think when I'm out in that wind next time, I'll furl the jib a little. I didn't mind the pitchpole too much - quite refreshing. Just want to be able to get it upright again afterwards! Thanks for the congrats. |
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| Author: | xnomad [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Follow this guide: http://www.hobiecat.com/support/tech/h14tuning.html For raking the mast lengthen your jibstay or forestay with an additional adjuster. Your shrouds will then be too long so you'll probably need to make new ones that are shorter, just measure the slack and remove that amount. If you use a mast step link kit to step the mast then be careful you don't make the minimum rake setting too great, I found that if my minimum rake was too great I had trouble removing or inserting the pin in the mast step link. This might not be the case for you, it could be because my boat is from 1978 the step and base have changed since then. When I first tried this I ended up wasting a set of shrouds as they were now too short and I couldn't use the pin. The handy thing about having shrouds too short was that I could experiment different shroud lengths by adding small shackles to the ends one by one. I could then measure the perfect length when I found it. So for me if I want to rake more than normal I have to step the mast first and then adjust for more rake. If I put in too much length on the forestay before stepping the past I can't get the link pin out and the mast doesn't seat properly in the step. Fortunately for me the rake angle I have when I step the mast now is good enough compared to what it was before. |
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| Author: | xnomad [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
RobPatt wrote: avoid pitchpoling... ? That's what turbos do... Really? That doesn't give me any incentive to one day upgrade to 'Turbo' and get a jib
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| Author: | RobPatt [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
them pencil thin hulls were the pioneers man! I've gone end over a few times, but it's fun, now and then she (the boat) likes to throw you a surprise, have a little fun. Flip her over, get her back on her feet, go sail like a madman again. |
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| Author: | drummer63 [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Mast rake can also be adjusted by adding a short pigtail from spare jib halyard between bridle and chainplate - that sure helped me get more rake on my 16 |
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| Author: | Africat [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Related question: I ran into a small problem trying to follow the advice to adjust mast rake further back. If I set the mast far back, the mast will no longer rotate. The "pin" (for lack of a better word) at the trailing edge of the mast will engage in the matching groove on the step and prevent rotation of the mast. So... what's up with that? Is the joint worn out? Am I just adding too much rake? Is this because there are some non-Hobie parts on the boat? Inquiring H14 minds want to know. This is with a Turbo, although without the furling mechanism, just the jib. |
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| Author: | MBounds [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
The mast step casting has changed over the years to accommodate more rake. You either file down your existing castings (you really don't need the mast step link on a 14) or get a new mast step. |
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| Author: | Africat [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pitch-pole fun and righting advice |
Aha! Thanks for the info, Matt. And I remember you saying somewhere that it's the same part for the 14 and 16, right? Although a file-job will be quicker and cheaper with no Hobie dealer in a 3000-mile radius. 
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