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Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=29427		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  wildlatin [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
:idea: Has anyone ever tried installing a tiller stick on each side of the rudder connecting beam to allow control from each side- especially when trapezing- without having to pass the stick around the main traveler?

I've been looking at hot stick extensions and they are kinda expensive for good, light ones but I already have two normal white fg Hobie sticks. I imagine the unused stick could just lay on the tramp. Might provide some stabilization of the rudder mechanism which probably wouldn't hurt. All I need is another 2 swivel connections toward the outboard of the crossbar.

I am new to this stuff and maybe this idea has major problems- or maybe it is a breakthrough... let me know?
Author:  gary eudy [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Come off the hip and get the Hotstick
You have not come up with a good idea
Author:  wildlatin [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
gary eudy wrote:
Come off the hip and get the Hotstick
You have not come up with a good idea


You are welcome to your opinion, Gary, but it would be more helpful if you would elaborate on why you feel this way? I also don't understand what 'off the hip' means- is it a NC expression?
Author:  BWells [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Its an interesting idea...

I would really say just use the one. Some potential problems with using 2 tillers..

Going upwind, flying a hull.. that leeward tiller is either going to get washed off or blown off. Its going to drag in the water, and potentially break. In the event of a capsize, its one more thing that could bounce up, go through the sail, get damaged, all in all cause problems. Downwind... when you let the main traveler out... where is it going to go? Let it drag behind the boat?

Just use the one and work on a good proper technique for moving it around the back. With some practice, you should be able to have it on your side within seconds.

During a tack, which I usually keep it on the low side until I move under the boom. I will throw the tiller over the back and grab the rudder crossbar to keep them pointed in the right direction. Then once i'm settled on the windward side I just pull it out of the water and go. For a gybe - i will actually bring it around the back before i even start the gybe. I just hold it next to the rudder crossbar, and turn into the gybe, helping the main across so it doesn't slam over. Once the sail is set to the new side, the tiller is already on my side and I have it in hand.

Good luck!
Author:  gary eudy [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Off the hip remove your wallet means spending a little money on your boat
Your high performance sailboat deserves the best parts you can afford
A hotstick will last many years with little care
Mine is about 20 years old and still works great
The advise you get in the forumns is priceless yet free
Bought a Hobie 14 in 1971
Owned a hobie 16 for 15 years
Owned a hobie 14 turbo yes with a hotstick
gary Hobie Cat 21SE USA 415
still looking for another 16 for solo surf sails
Author:  Paewraul [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Your biggest problem will be the unused tiller getting jammed in the lacing/stays/whatever, making you unable to steer the boat. Sounds like you'll crack a tiller crossbar trying to drill it out too.
Author:  56kz2slow [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
When I tack or jybe, I put the tiller parallel and over the crossbar and grab both as I start to turn with my hand closest to the tiller. Once I slide under the boom and swing it with my shoulder, I grab the crossbar and tiller with my other hand, then take the tiller back.

Some people just through the tiller out back in the water and make their turn using the crossbar and only worry about getting the tiller back once the maneuver is over.

With practice, you will figure out a technique that works best for you.
Author:  fastcat [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
I would strongly suggest sticking to one stick, a second stick will just get fouled when not in use or drag behind the boat. Same as - why it is best to use one sheet for the main and traveler and a single sheet for the jib (if you have one) it is less likely to get tangled up. I used a hot stick on my H16 for 20 years and now one on my H17Sport for the last 8 and wouldn't use anything else. :wink:
Author:  John Lunn [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Great idea, in the right circumstances.....

Why not Google or YouTube '18 skiffs', and see what our crazy Aussie friends do with dual tiller extensions. (Or get the DVD of Extreme Sailing, go Bethwaite's, go). These extensions (hot sticks) are bungied so that they don't flop around. Most importantly, they sail their skiffs with VERY LITTLE HEEL. And when they do capsize or pitchpole at speed, it is spectacular, often with damage.

And that's the challenge in sailing a Hobie, where a hull can fly at a moment's notice. So if you manage to sail 'flat' the whole time, it might work well. On the other hand, I happen to share many of the views of the others who have posted here.....stay with the hot stick....and learn like we all did to move it across behind the main sheet stack.

Good winds
Author:  fastcat [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
If moving the stick from side to side is the concern, it can be done easy enough. Rotate it just prior to the tack or jibe while you are switching sides. Sometimes I hold it together with the rudder cross bar with one hand while working the main sheet with the other. :wink:
Author:  wildlatin [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Thanks to all for the thought and opinion...

It's good to see that I am not the only one with the idea- ala' 18-skiff aussies- Wow!

Also, Carribean (?) or others complete removal of the tiller- and using feet !

Anyway, one factor in my novice mind is the aft movement, around the mainsheet rig, possibly with stick falling into the boat wake.

Is that why some put the cork ball on the end of the fiberglass tiller rod?
Does it help with locating a stick fallen aft overboard?

I have also seen a couple possible improved configurations-

♦ A sister-clip-like clamp, like a broomstick clamp, to hold the tiller rod against the tiller crossbar for storage. This would have to be one on both ends of the crossbar.

♦ Ultimately, some kind of cat I saw has an additional pivot point- under the rear tramp cross member to the tiller crossbar- allowing the stick to pivot forward of the main sheet rig and remain on the tramp! Anyone have any experience with this?

I know the easiest is just to practice and become proficient with the standard tiller, and invest in a quality extending 'hot stick'. If anyone has a line or a 'deal' for one (I watch eBay but nothing seen.) I'm a potential buyer.
Author:  56kz2slow [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
wildlatin wrote:
Is that why some put the cork ball on the end of the fiberglass tiller rod?
Does it help with locating a stick fallen aft overboard?

The cork ball is more a matter of preference as to what people like to hold. A friend got one because he likes it. I rarely hold the tiller by the end, so useless to me.

It's easy to find the fallen tiller. You look at the pivot for the tiller on the crossbar, and voilà.
Author:  fastcat [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
I put the cork ball on mine, then 'carmel' coat it with epoxy for wear reduction. I too do not use it to hold, but it gives you a very positive identification to the stick end and also good leverage point to release an over tightened cam lock.
Author:  DaveW70 [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick vs. Paint Roller Extensions
I have to admit that I didn't think much of the idea when I first read this thread. But, here is a guy that put dual hiking sticks on a Getaway and it doesn't look half bad. And, he didn't spend a lot of money doing it either. They are not true hiking sticks but rather paint roller extensions. If he ever needs to paint a ceiling ...

http://steve.skybeach.org/sailing_files/sailing2.htm

Scroll down the page a little to see his pictures.

Dave W
Author:  branson [ Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dual Tillers vs. Hotstick
Anyone ever tried affixing magnets to the tiller and crossbar to keep the tiller out of the water when tacking? The neodymium magnets are small, cheap and readily found on the internet. I am going to to this in the winter.
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